Am I about to be Paypal scammed?

[dustin wassner]

I am selling a piece of equipment from my location in upstate NY. The buyer is in Hawaii and found it on craigslist.

I know that the buyer's address on their paypal account needs to match the one being shipped to for seller protection.

The issue here is that they want to have me crate it and they will have their shipper pick it up.

I spoke with them on the phone for a while and they seem legit. I also checked out their business websites and their names are listed so that all appears legit as well.

They will be sending the paypal funds before it is shipped, obviously.

what are your thoughts?

[Frederick Skelly]

I think I'd pass, myself. There are some resemblances between this and other scams I have heard of.
1. You crate and their shipper picks it up. That often seems to be an element, though Im not sure why.
2. They are a very long way away from you and monitoring your local craiglist.
3. I can set up a fake website - seems like they could too
4. Con artists make their living by talking good. So the phone call may or may not be a reliable indicator.

But I can be completely wrong. (Remember - this is free advice.)

So I guess it comes down to "Do you need to sell it badly enough to take a gamble?"

With luck, it'll turn out just fine.

Fred

[Dimitrios Fradelakis]

Run and run fast. Obvious scam.

[dustin wassner]

Just got off the phone with paypal. They will cover if shipped to the address on the transaction. Problem is, since the buyer is using their shipping, they can change the address it is being sent to after it is picked up.

After telling the buyer that I would rather just put up a quick ebay listing for them to buy through, they said that would work. So, it appears that they are legit...

[michael langman]

Dustin, I was selling a boat on craigslist last summer and a fellow emailed me saying he wanted the boat and not to sell it. He was in a far away place and was going to have the boat delivered to him through his own company. He inclided the 3-4--.00 in the check to me to pay his movers when they showed up at my house.
Everything seemed too good to be true. He sent me a treasurers check, from his company that was online. Everything looked very legitimate. At this point I knew I was being scammed.
I found much evidence of this scam online and through my bank. Were I to cash his check at my bank, I would have been liable for the cost of the check through my bank if it did not go through. The check looked very authentic but was not.
I went through with the sale, to piss the guy off. He called me back to try and scare me, about having his check, which I never cashed.

Be very careful about cashing any checks from far away places. It will cost you if it is fake.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Big difference between the fake scam checks and a pay pal payment. Seems weird that some one would pay to ship something to hawaii, but frankly, the folks with the bogus check schemes are usually asking the seller to wire some refund. Which needs to be wired before the fake check (doesn't) clear. If the outfit has a phone registered in it's name, you are leagues beyond the fake check scams. They always deal by e-mail and never actually talk to folks. Listen, if you stand to make a decent profit, call the police dept in that area in Hawaii to see if any other scams were reported involving that company. They may not have a Dunn and Bradstreet rating, but it so far sounds more legit than bogus. If it is a company, you can check with the Hawaii dept of state, to see if it is a legit registered business, partnership etc. What ever kind of entity it is should have a sales tax number/license there. If a contractor, probably a contractor's license. Home improvement license etc. Do they have a web site, listing with the BBB, etc. Have you actually called the number in the yellow pages/on the web site for them to verify. be straight up with the cops and the buyer and tell them you were leery and you are trying to verify their existence.

And to Mr. langman, How could you be liable for the check if it did not clear, other than a return check fee? As long as you issue no funds or checks until the check clears, the most you could be liable for is the returned check fee. Heck in my law practice, folks gave me checks that did not clear at least once a year. Usually divorce cases where the spouse raided the account about the same time as the check was written. Clients always made good on it. If it was indeed a scam, the guy probably would not have called PO'd about you having his check. He would just print another.

[Sam Murdoch]

Going through PP is pretty much a lock and I don't see the advantage of using eBay in between. BUT - trust your little voice - not mine.

On the other hand if they were sending you a bank check and including EXTRA $$s for you to pay their shipper then I would yell SCAM!

The trick is that the cashiers check will come through and look completely legit. You will very likely be able to take it to your bank and in a few days the funds will be set free. BUT in 2017 banks don't really talk to each other. YOUR BANK will clear the check for you BUT the rock will fall on your head - not theirs - when after a few more days or after 90 days (this explained to me by several banks and by a fraud officer) it is determined after all that the bank check was a forgery.

Meanwhile you, thinking you have some dollars Plus Extra from your buyer, are amenable to pay the "shipper" from "your" funds - and now you know the rest of the story. Often in these cases the "shipper's" name or business location changes or the pick up date or time keeps changing and then you might be asked to simply send the $$s to the shipper and then they will come pick up, etc. etc.

Trust your little voice and believe that there are scammers out there.

[Matt Day]

Sounds like a scam to me - who in the heck has a shipper?

I was scammed about 15 years ago and I learned to trust that little voice.

Even though you’ve talked to them and they sound legit and all that, just seems odd. Are they paying you the full amount, or the full amount plus another grand or two?

What kind of machine?

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Lots of companies have contracts with "shippers" to get a lower rate. For instance, when dealing with a law firm in Florida, they insisted that I just put the documents in an envelope with their address and an account number in the upper corner. A courier would pick the stuff up. I never paid anyone for shipping. They had the stuff the next day. about ten yrs ago, most documents became faxed or emailed, but a few months before I retired, a shipment of 1400 pages went out the same way, picked up and all I had to do is let the courier service take them. Some companies have contracts with carriers for shipping. To get a special rate, they agree that all their shipping goes through that trucking or freight company. Just two years ago, when i returned a firearm for warranty repair, the manufacturer insisted that I use a certain "shipper" and put their account number on the package. The shipping company (DHL) picked up the package and gave me a receipt for the gun. I did not pay a thing.

I am considering the purchase of a machine on ebay. It is for local pickup only. I can arrange with a freight company to pick it up, crate it (put it on a pallet) and ship it. Right now the I am waiting for them to give me a cost. If we agree on the cost, that company will be my "shipper" If the cost is too high, it is not worth my gas and time to drive 400 miles each way to get the item.

Unlike a fake check, a pay pal payment is much more difficult to "fake" Unlike a fake check, the funds are there and transmitted immediately. Paypal has very limited written procedures for returning funds. I have purchased many items from overseas through pay pal without going through e-bay. Paypal will expect a cut., I have even had my legal fees paid by pay pal. (usually paid by others some distance away for local clients. For instance a grand child's legal bill paid by grandpa in Florida.) The funds are there instantly. If it is a large enough amount, I have had funds electronically auto transferred to my bank account.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I sometimes buy classic cars in the states and ship them to myself. I contract a carrier to pick them up and take them to Tropical Shipping, who takes it to me. That said, I am legit, and I know I am legit, but you are the one taking the risk in this situation. PayPal covers you if shipped to the PayPal address, but you are not shipping it. It's being picked up. The guy can claim he never got it, and claim he has no idea what you're talking about when you say his carrier picked it up.

If you want to go through with the deal, I would insist on a notarized statement that the buyer understands that the item is being sold as-is, where is, and that they are taking posession at your location through their own third party, and waiving right to make a claim beyond point of pickup.

The big red flag to me is they were checking Craigslist in NY, but they are in Hawaii. If I were in Hawaii, I would be checking Craigslist in California. Shipping from NY would be cost prohibitive. I buy cars in Miami and Jacksonville, where the ports are. I bought one in Kansas once and shipping about killed me!

[Roy Petersen]

Going through PP is pretty much a lock

Honestly speaking, it isn't. Most of the time they side with the buyer in disputes, so his caution is warranted. The Ebay play is to get some sort of protection, since they get involved in disputes more than Paypal does, and offer guarantees of a sort.

For me? If it was a large amount (a few hundred on up), I'd have used an escrow service. Escrow.com is one I've used to sell in the past, and it protects at both ends (buyer and seller). There are fees, which you can pay, have the buyer pay or you can split it between you. They take the money and verify from the buyer, you ship/send the item, recipient verifies and they release your funds. Worth the effort.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

There is a pay pal scam but it involves the buyer sending a counterfeit PAypal email saying the funds were deposited. Sometimes they even use the term invisibly deposited. Simple to check your paypal account to see if the funds have been deposited. If your pay pal account shows the deposit, it is good.

To the OP, get the buyer to verify in writing that payment is by pay pal, that they are having the item picked up and by whom. Then get the shipper to sign a receipt for the item. Then you have an enforceable contract. It was delivered as specified by the buyer. Just don't let the item go until your pay pal account shows the funds are in, not an email saying the funds were deposited.

[michael langman]

Perry, All I can tell you is what the bank told me. If they cash a check sent to me, and I walk out of the bank with the money, if the check does not go through they take the money out of my account to cover the check.
There have been too many scams like this and the banks are always the last to take the fall.'
AS to selling something through ebay or pay pal,then they are the ones to lose if the check fails.

[michael langman]

Perry, After discussing this with my wife, it was our credit union and not a bank that said I would be liable for the check amount in case of failure to go through.
As for this scam, I did go through it last summer, and still have the guys check. He called me and threatened me in a stupid voice trying to scare me, and I told him to come speak to me in person if he has the bal...s to.
Look this scam up online and you will understand, when you read about the thousands of people that have been ripped off by these people.

[Frederick Skelly]

Perry, All I can tell you is what the bank told me. If they cash a check sent to me, and I walk out of the bank with the money, if the check does not go through they take the money out of my account to cover the check.

Once upon a time, I had a paycheck bounce the day after I cashed it. The bank called and asked me to return the money. I was younger and did so. (It's a long story that I won't go into detail about on the internet. But today, I'd push back harder.)

With that experience in mind, I find Mike's story to be very possible. The banks do seem to usually "have things their way".

Fred