fumming white oak

[mike johnston]

I have just finished a doom lid steamer trunk. Qs. white oak, to many nooks and crannies for me to feel comfortable staining, I hate to stain, or use anything else that may creep out of a crack after the fact. So I'm going to try fumming .Watched a lot of vids, and read lots of post,all seem pretty straight forward. Looking for amount of ammonium to use for this size project, or does it make any difference. I would think, the larger the project the more ammonium would be needed. But I can not find any guidlines as to amount. Any help or advice, would be appreciated. Have searched here, nada.
Thanks

[John TenEyck]

You want 28% ammonia, not ammonium. But I caution you that that stuff can and will kill you if you are not careful. Personally, I see no benefit of fuming WO. Stickley no longer does that with their A&C furniture. When light fast dyes became available they switched because the results are more consistent and predictable, and they are MUCH safer to use.

John

[Steve Schoene]

Agree with John. Dye, followed by pigment stain, gives much more consistent results. Ammonia fuming besides being hazardous, is inconsistent. For examples wood from different trees will br affected differently.

[Scott T Smith]

As usual, John's advice is spot on.

To answer your question, if you buy 28% ammonia you will probably only need a few oz's. I personally use 50% lab grade ammonia and it acts very quickly...

You HAVE to do it in an area that you can vent, and you need a quality respirator with cartridges that are rated for ammonia. Have a plan for draining the ammonia pan back into a storage bottle too.

[Thomas L Carpenter]

Use the smallest amount you can buy. At 28% all it takes is one small spill to completely fill a shop with unbreathable fumes. It causes your eyes to water so bad you can't see and it really burns to breath it. I have also used it in a lab and in a manufacturing setting. When using it I wore a full face respirator, rubber apron and rubber gloves and covered all exposed skin. It also does a very nice job of turning your white oak to a nice brown shade.

[mike johnston]

I do have ammonium hydroxide 28%. My fear with stains or dyes are all the little hard to get to cracks between pannels and frame work. I think there are 30 some panels 2 sides to each, I'm worried about not getting stain wiped out of all those corners. Working small areas at a time can leave sketchy results. I do deal with NH3 ( anhydrous ammonia ) and will take precautions. I would have to do this in my shop, it is a seperate building. As usual more conflicted than ever.
thanks Mike

[John TenEyck]

It sounds like you are familiar with the safety issues of ammonia; that's good. But keep in mind the comment above about non-uniform results if some of the wood came from different trees. FWIW, all I got was an ugly green when I tried fuming some white oak; thankfully, on scrap. You can still get variation when using dyes and stains, but at least you can adjust the concentration, etc. to homogenize the results if needed with those. With ammonia you're cooked because you can't isolate one piece from another in an assembled piece. Even if you could, how would you which section will respond differently and how to compensate. It's pretty clear why Stickley migrated away from ammonia.

Applying dyes and stains uniformly are skills, but not hard ones to learn. Oak is about the most forgiving wood there is, too, especially with stains.

John