Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Bench advice and a multiple vise vice

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Northeast PA
    Posts
    527

    Bench advice and a multiple vise vice

    While I realize that asking for general workbench advice on a WWing forum can be a little like drinking from a firehose, I value the collective experience here on SMC enough to take the risk.

    The bench i am working from presently (while it has served me well) is far too light, has only a 1.75" thick top, and no end vise. It can be challenging to hold long pieces for planing, is not as stout as I'd like for chopping mortises on, and the face vise it is outfitted with (vintage Columbian w/quick release) is prone to wracking. I've been tickling the idea of building a nice beefy bench for a while now, and I'm about ready to take the plunge. After I finish my wife's bookcases, that is...

    I've decided on the famed Roubo-style bench, complete with the sliding dovetail and tenon combo that pierces the benchtop, mostly because I really want to cut that joint, and I think it looks super cool as well as rock solid. I was leaning toward oak or ash for the top, but I recently came across some nice dry 16/4 cherry for much less than the cost of the KD oak or ash that I've sourced over the last few weeks. So cherry it is!

    Here is my dilemma.

    I bought an Emmert turtleback at an estate sale a few weeks ago, and was planning on mounting it on the new bench. I am concerned that it will not function well on a nearly 4" thick benchtop though. At a minimum I would have to plow a 2" deep dado in the underside of the top to accommodate the lead screw, and I worry that the thickness would interfere with the vise's rotation since I would install it with the rear jaw flush to the edge of the benchtop. Can any of you guys speak to whether my concerns are real or imagined? I have zero experience with the Emmert vise. And I REALLY like the idea of a LN or Veritas twin screw chain drive face vise.

    Question 1) If you were building your next bench, would you install the Emmert, or sell it and put the cash towards new vise hardware? Why or why not?

    Also, I'm leaning towards the Lie Nielsen tail vise as opposed to the Veritas version or the Benchcrafted wagon vise.

    Question 2) Do any of you guys have experience with the LN tail vise that you'd care to share? Given the LN and the BC to choose from, which would you pick?

    Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts. And happy Thanksgiving!
    ---Trudging the Road of Happy Destiny---

  2. #2
    I'd have a real hard time giving up an emmert or an oliver patternmakers vise if I had one. I'd probably be willing to give up a couple inches in length in a small section(either dado it out or just mill your lumber to leave the space.

    I don't know if it would cause an issue with rotation. I haven't gotten ahold of one yet.

    And I will repeat: You sir are the king of vises.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Northeast PA
    Posts
    527
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel O'Connell View Post
    I'd have a real hard time giving up an emmert or an oliver patternmakers vise if I had one. I'd probably be willing to give up a couple inches in length in a small section(either dado it out or just mill your lumber to leave the space.

    I don't know if it would cause an issue with rotation. I haven't gotten ahold of one yet.

    And I will repeat: You sir are the king of vises.
    Like I said, just lucky! I picked up the Emmert and the saw vise that you now have at the same estate sale.
    ---Trudging the Road of Happy Destiny---

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    1,429
    I use a LN bench. It may have been one of the first few they made, years ago when they started making benches. On sale at the time it was a wash in price compared to surcing my own hard maple. it has their tail vise and I use it regularly. But like ALL tail vises, it will sag over time. It is about 3/32 below the height of the bench currently.

    Go with the Benchcrafted wagon vise. That is what I will be using when I get around to building another bench.

  5. #5
    If I were to build a new bench I would get a twin screw as the face vise. I use the tail vise less and less as I have become more fond of stops and hooks. On long pieces the tail vise bows the work more than a stop does.

    Also, when sawing off the end of the bench, the tail vise handle is in the way.

    But as far as tail vises go, the veritas I have is nice because it is quick release.

    I am also a fan of the wagon vise because it does not extend the length of the bench if you are jammed for space.

    I also now long for wheel style handles instead of stick. They don't get in the way when clamping things like drawers.
    Last edited by Prashun Patel; 11-24-2017 at 10:48 AM.

  6. #6
    I have been using the LN front and tail vise for a couple of years now. Excellent vises: no sag on the tail vise whatsoever. Building the jaw is a bit of a project, but do-able. Do the final flattening of the bench top with the vise jaw in place: mine is still perfectly flush after 2 years.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    27,347
    Blog Entries
    1
    If you decide to forgo the Emmert vise, it would make me very happy to have it, even at a price.

    If your shop is big enough to allow all side access to your bench, you might consider having a vise on both sides and even both ends of the bench.

    In the mean time for a racking vise you may find a solution in an Anti-Rack Spacer Stack:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...k-Spacer-Stack

    Anti-Rack Spacer Stack.jpg

    The spacing of the cutouts will be different on different vises. The one on the left goes over the screw and the other goes over the guide rail.

    Another reply mentioned bowing of stock held in a tail or end vise. One advantage of the Anti-Rack Spacer Stack is it also prevents a vise from closing more than is needed to hold the stock. Here is a post on its use with thin stock:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...e-Observations

    As for holding without a vise there are many options. Roy Underhill did an episode of The Woodwright's Shop on holding work without a vise:

    http://www.pbs.org/video/woodwrights...eless-devices/

    He talks about stops, bird mouths, crochets for viseless holding. Then there was The Claw...

    That one caught my eye and motivated me to make one:

    Holding Thin Work on Edge.jpg

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...Without-A-Vise

    Since my bench has a face and tail vise this contraption doesn't get used a lot, but it is good on a saw bench in a pinch.

    Other ways of holding using wedges and dogs abound. It should hold you over until you finish a new bench.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #8
    Keep and install the Emmert in your new bench you will never regret it. and it will add amazing flexibility Having said that I will tell you that installation is a royal pain- been there, done that. My white ash top is 3" thick and the install is the one like you want, rear jaw flush with the bench edge. There is a lot of carving and chopping to do but the dividends are there.
    Dave Anderson

    Chester, NH

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    N. Idaho
    Posts
    1,621
    Hello Brian,

    I built a BC style Roubo almost 5 years ago now and went through the same deliberations. You can read about the (long!) thought process and build here:
    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...and-Bench-Dead

    Short version is I'm very happy with the bench, and I use the wagon vise all the time (but agree with Prashun that having the tail vise wheel on the right side is a bit of a pain for sawing. The leg/chain vise combo I have is great, but would be thrilled to have an Emmert instead.

    Best,
    Chris
    "You can observe a lot just by watching."
    --Yogi Berra

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    N Illinois
    Posts
    4,602
    Brian, love your opening comment :

    "can be a little like drinking from a firehose"

    seriously, a wealth of knowledge here on SMC..You're getting good advice, even for a fellow NE Pa. resident. It'll all work out.
    Jerry

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Northeast PA
    Posts
    527
    Thanks for the replies guys. As luck would have it, my FIL called Friday to say he was getting new furniture and wanted to know if we wanted the bookcases he was replacing. So I’m now off the proverbial hook with the Missus, and I’ll wager that you can guess how I spent my weekend.

    After cutting out the drying checks, I was able to glue up an 84” long x 24” deep x 4.5” thick top. Next will be to flatten it out, make the necessary cuts to install the Emmert, and cut out for the tail vise. I ordered the LN tail vise this afternoon, I just couldn’t get with the wagon vise. I also decided against the benchtop-piercing tenon/sliding dovetail joint since my shop is in the basement and it would be much easier to get the bench out someday if the top can be detached.

    Ill take a pile of pics along the way and put together a thread when I get some actual work done.
    ---Trudging the Road of Happy Destiny---

  12. #12
    Oddly enough, my wooden tail vise - the Frank Klausz variation - has not sagged or otherwise been anything other than incredibly smooth running, strong, and handsome for the last 15 years or so. Mainly a question of good design, accurate joinery, and enough beef to avoid bad behavior. The large dovetails can be milled with a table saw if not up to getting them out by saw and chisel, or waisted with drill press and forstner bit, then worked to the line. I've worked 4' square 5/4 white oak cross-grain and never found a need to resort to holdfasts or other work-arounds to keep things from moving. Also nice to have the surface that a moving tail vise provides when working stock longer than the usual.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •