Air filtration for new shop

[Jason Victory]

Hey guys; I’m new here so I hope I’m posting in the right place! I’ve been running (solo) a small furniture business in my personal shop for the past couple years and it has been successful enough to turn it into a part time job and I am blessed enough to be able to financially afford to build a bigger shop. The shop will be 20x26 so roughly 500sq/ft.

My question pertains to an air filtration system. Should I be looking at getting a single unit that performs at 1000-1200 CFM or would it be better two get two units at 500-600 CFM and hang them one opposite sides of the shop. I’m just wondering if the two will collect more working together in two separate locations.

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

[Chris Parks]

The trick is too prevent dust getting into the air so the need for filtration is minimised. You will never eliminate it but you can sure get the levels way down using a good dust extraction system and well designed hoods and pick ups on the machines. This requires a serious investment but if it is your job then it will pay off. If you don't take the necessary steps as you set up it is unlikely you will ever do it.

[Darin German]

I have one small filtration unit in my 2 car garage and will probably add a second. I spray my finishes and the filtration units help pull the particles out of the air. I use mostly waterborne finishes though. My small unit is very effective on it's own but adding a second isn't that expensive. I don't have room for a large DC so I have to move my small one from machine to machine.

[Randy Heinemann]

I have taken a multi-faceted approach to dust -

1. A cyclone dust collector for at-source collection on my larger machines - planer, jointer, bandsaw, table saw, router table, and lathe.
2. A HEPA vac for collection from smaller, portable tools - sanders, handheld routers, Festool Domino, and drill press.
3. A ceiling hung air cleaner to remove as much floating dust as possible - the dust that isn't kept out of the air by either the cyclone or the HEPA vac.
4. A powered mask that is worn most of the time while using any of the above machines, small or large.

Between all of those, I get very little dust settling on the floor or shelves. I think that means that, for the most part, I'm successful in keeping dust out of the air and my lungs.

I have always felt that anything less that this 4-component approach, is a risk to my lungs. I wish I'd have understood this back when I started woodworking in the 70's. I have still been fortunate that my lungs are healthy and I want to keep it that way.

[John K Jordan]

I have taken a multi-faceted approach to dust -
1. A cyclone dust ...

Jason,

I work much like Randy: a good cyclone first. I installed a 5hp ClearVue cyclone in my new shop.
When making dust I wear a 3M industrial respirator with P100 filters.

I think an air cleaner/filter is good for cleaning up fine dust that manages to float around the room. It has a timer so it can run for a while while your are out of the shop. (I have a Jet that hangs from the ceiling)

One nice investment is an air quality monitor. I have the Dylos: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004AWEG0Y Instead of guessing, this will let you know if there is harmful superfine dust floating around the shop. This is recommended by Bill Pentz.

You might read the Pentz site for a little light (ha!) reading on the subject. http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/ Bill has been instrumental in educating many people on the dangers of dust and how to deal with it. Even 20 years ago very few people with personal shops (and even some commercial shops) seemed concerned about the health aspects of breathing dust. This seems to be changing -- just yesterday I ran into a guy from my church who was shopping for a cyclone for his little garage shop.

Two gentlemen from our woodturning club were forced to give up working with wood because of serious health issues from fine wood dust.

JKJ

[glenn bradley]

I am in a 20 x 30 foot area and find one unit located along the long wall (as most reading recommends) does the job. I have good collection at the source and still find the ambient collector beneficial. As my source collection has gotten better, I clean/change the filters less ofen but, it is still capturing enough to make it worth while. I imagine a few folks would be surprised what gets collected if they ran an ambient cleaner while they were working for an hour or so ;-)

[Randy Heinemann]

I don't know if it's a good idea to sacrifice quality on other tools but it sure is the best idea to do what you can to remove dust from the air. As another said the dust collection solution isn't the same across the board for everyone. Do as much research online as you need to make a decision. There is a lot of info out there; some contradictory and some consistent. HEPA filters on dust collectors and vacs is superior to other filtering methods. 2-stage dust collectors (like cyclones) are generally better than single stage. Air cleaners don't come with HEPA filters and are therefore really best as an end filter which repetitvely attempts to pull the remaining dust from the air. In the end it's always best to use some sort of dust mask to make sure you are getting the least dust in your lungs possible (a good quality mask).

[Jason Victory]

Ok thanks guys! So it sounds like I really need to invest some $ in a good DC system. Unfortunately I am on a budget like most of us I’m sure; should I sacrifice some of my other tools in terms of quality and invest in a good DC?

Another thing I forgot to mention is my kids are frequent visitors of the shop during the day given my wife is a stay at home mom. So air quality is very imprortant.

[Chris Parks]

Ask what value do you put on your health? The real problem is a lot of advise is given with no real foundation in fact except to say that "my system works for me". There are no facts to back up that statement and at the end of the day every installation is unique. My advise is to buy a cyclone, Clearvue and Bill Pentz give actual numbers on its performance, others may but I have never seen them so I can't comment. Exhaust that cyclone to the atmosphere if possible avoiding filters and use what money you have left to equip the workshop adding more as you get more money. I say use a cyclone because it usually has good expansion possibilities as you add more machines and it sounds like that is your intention. BTW Clearvue state that their cyclones will separate to over 99% with very fine sub micron dust being the only stuff left. Exhausted to atmosphere that can't be seen or detected but make sure that the exhaust is away form doors and windows as much as possible to avoid the dust being dragged back into the building.

[Jason Victory]

I’ve never thought about exhausting it to the outside. Is there a benefit of doing that vs running it into a normal bag setup?

[Chris Parks]

Exhausting it outside is dependent on climate, sucking air out of the building obviously impacts any heating or cooling due to the air change that happens. if it is feasible exhausting to atmosphere is the best thing, there are no filters to clean and it improves air flow. Bags are a waste of time, they all leak and the dust they leak is the most harmful to you as it is the small end of the particle scale, that gets ingested into the lungs and never leaves the body. You can't exhaust a bag/filter style extractor to the atmosphere as the exhaust stream carries all the debris it picked up so it has to be a cyclone as it is the separator and holds the dust.

[Jason Victory]

Ok what would you suggest to use in order to keep animals such as birds out of the exhaust that also wouldn’t hinder airflow?

[Chris Parks]

A couple of hundred installations in Australia don't report nesting birds or other wild life in the exhaust so I think the problem is non existent and if any did take up residence they wouldn't stay long when the cyclone started. Most extractors are muffled anyway whether they are inside exhaust or outside exhaust so that would be an impediment to wild life as well.

[Ole Anderson]

My advise is to buy a cyclone, Clearvue and Bill Pentz give actual numbers on its performance, others may but I have never seen them so I can't comment. Exhaust that cyclone to the atmosphere if possible avoiding filters and use what money you have left to equip the workshop adding more as you get more money.

Sure glad Festool doesn't make a big cyclone, enough bragging on Clearviews as it is. Don't think the rest of us would be able to stand it! I don't subscribe to the gospel of Pentz, but his website does deserve perusing at least once. Just keep in mind he has underlying health issues that push his agenda.

Seriously, dust collection shouldn't be an afterthought. If you plan on staying in WW, as most folks that find their way to the Creek are, dealing with dust should be early on your list of shop equipment. For most, a 2-3 hp cyclone would be a starting point. Forget baggers. You want something that can pull at least 800 cfm at your major tools. I have a 2 hp Oneida SDG that can pull 1000 cfm at my 6" gates with a 7" main run. Also a DustRight ambient cleaner (no longer available). Not as fastidious as some, but I do use a p95 mask when free sanding or blowing down my ship or cleaning filters.

"I see what you are saying about noise, but that is the only argument against and I have ear plugs in anyway."

Running a multi hp dust collector to clean your air is very inefficient when a 1/4 hp ambient filter will work as well, moving over 1000 cfm. Most of them, including mine, have a built in timer.

[Chris Parks]

Sure glad Festool doesn't make a big cyclone, enough bragging on Clearviews as it is. Don't think the rest of us would be able to stand it! I don't subscribe to the gospel of Pentz, but his website does deserve perusing at least once. Just keep in mind he has underlying health issues that push his agenda.

Everyone has an agenda, me, you, Bill Pentz and so on. I used to frequently get calls from woodworkers and in one case a WW's wife wanting to know how a cyclone could help improve their health which had been damaged by ingesting dust. It seems a straight forward proposition to say that capturing as much dust as possible at source during machining operations is a good thing and I don't think that Bill Pentz says more than that. if there is a cyclone that equals CV's performance then use that but I personally can't say more than that as no other cyclone is available in Australia. Any product that requires handling dusty bags just concentrates the dust problem to handling the bags and they all leak anyway. We are fortunate that our moderate climate means 99% of installations vent straight to atmosphere taking away the necessity to handle filters and I am sure there are parts of the US where that could be done also thus saving money and increasing air flow at the same time.