Photographs on Aluminum (or not)

[Melissa BurnerMN]

Good Morning everyone,
I've been working with our laser engraver only a few months. This is a machine that we have added to our business recently. We will be doing LOTS of photo engraving. I will be engraving on marble, granite, and aluminum mainly. The aluminum tiles are giving me the hardest time. Right now we are using laserable aluminum from Johnson's. My coworkers and I aren't quite happy with some of the results and it takes me several tries to get the pictures right. I assume some of that is my noobie-ness but I am not impressed with product. I wanted to reach out to the community and ask is there an outdoor-proof product that will photo engrave well? Or do you have some tips and tricks to using the laserable aluminum to get the best results?

Thanks!

[John Lifer]

In my fairly new opinion, if you can get any photo that you deem acceptable on laserable aluminum, your doing well. The outdoor grade (only black as far as I know) is pretty poor engraving anything. At least in my several attempts. Std anodized sheet lasers well, but pictures needing a gradiant probably won't happen consistently. Now I've seen some use cermark on bare aluminum that looks decent, but in my opinion, stick to stainless, marble and granite.

[Mike Null]

I am not a fan of laser engraving photographs. That said, try a material like Alumamark or a similar product.

[Scott Shepherd]

Anodized aluminum holds more details than most other materials. Some of the highest definition photographs I have ever seen lasered were on anodized aluminum. In particular, Universal had a demo of their high density optics with a very beautiful Indian lady and it was amazing. It's probably on their website somewhere.

Having said that, the time to properly prepare the individual photographs so they turn out stunning is a lot of work. You have to learn the tools, like Photoshop very well in order to know what the image should look like to give you the best image. You can't simply open any photo and engrave it and expect it to be great. It just doesn't work like that.

I'm with Mike, we very rarely engrave photographs for people. We can do it, but we generally mention the price to have it done and people say "Oh, okay, thanks" and that ends the conversation.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

I'm with Steve and Mike. I have seen some gorgeous photograph work on aluminum and I too had great results when I did aluminum. I have steered away from photos for the last several years. Mainly because customers were expecting miracles when supplying fuzzy old photos. While I could pull it off and achieve results they loved, I wasn't thrilled with it. I now only do photos for special long-term customers and haven't touched aluminum in several years either.

[Melissa BurnerMN]

Unfortunately this will be the main use of the machine and why it was purchased. I am doing this because I am the tech person for this company. That just means I can work the software. As orders come in I will fill them, it's not our main bread and butter. We have ideas on how to use it more but for now we are taking back the business we were previously sending out. This particular product was actually "Metalphoto" tiles NOT laser engraved. They told one of the CSRs that is "was" laser engraved. When we bought this machine they went to Johnson's and got a stack of laserable aluminum in the size for the product because apparently this is what the "metalphoto" tiles are done on. I agree on the Alumamark and will be asking my boss to buy me some sheets to do some practice on.

[Scott Shepherd]

Melissa, sounds like you are tech savvy, what you need to learn is what the laser needs. What the laser doesn't like on photographs are extremes. Extremes like solid white or solid black areas. What you look at with your eye and say "That looks great" is not what looks great when laser engraved. What is great for the laser, looks, what I call, flat, to the eye. Lots of middle area tones and not as many solids. For example, a bride and groom, one wearing a solid white dress and the other wearing a solid black tux is a nightmare and won't engrave well. To make it look good, you'd have to pull the white back to a shade of gray, and then pull the black back to where it wasn't solid black.

Once you learn what it needs, then it's a lot easier to do. There is no reason you can't get a great photograph onto anodized aluminum. You need need to work on getting the right tones before sending it over.

[Scott Shepherd]

Here are a couple of examples from ULS. You obviously can't see the high quality in the one with 9 images, but it was stunning.

Screen Shot 2017-11-08 at 2.05.37 PM.jpgone_touch_4.jpg

[Melissa BurnerMN]

Yes I agree. I've made lots a strides in the last two months. I keep searching and reading articles about getting the photos right.
These are a couple of things I've done:

mi.jpggrace.JPG

The one on the left is on granite and the right is walnut-stained alder (this is my white cat). I haven't taken any pictures of the Durablack we are currently using. I will keep at it. We have our stock pre-cut and I may ask for bigger sheets to run power/speed tests on.

[Scott Shepherd]

They look pretty good Melissa! My advice would be.....

....on the dog, pull the black back (in his chest area) to something close to 70% black, and then, for the background, pull that way back from white, something closer to 30-40% white.....

....on the cat, same thing, pull the highlights back about 30-40% of where they are now, and the pull the dark parts (unengraved area in the middle), back to 60-70%, and I think you'll actually have some really good looking photos. It just hates solid black and white. You get blown out images from solid colors like that, or not engraved at all, like the center of the cat. You are very close, just work on making everything more monotone than massive highlights.

[Melissa BurnerMN]

Thanks for the advice! It's going in my notes for when I work on pictures.

[Bill Stearns]

Melissa and Others:
Pertaining to photo engraving, I’d like to believe I’ve learned ‘few things over time.
Goes without saying the higher quality the photo, the better the results. I, often, ask customers to provide me with two, or three, choices. (too often I’ve spent too much time working with lousy, or blury, photos.)


Far as Johnson’s (black) “granite” goes, using too much power didn’t work for me: using my 35W Epilog, I typically use 30 speed ‘n 60, or 65, power. I convert JPEG photos to bitmaps - but, using PhotoShop, I save ‘em as “black & white”, ‘stead of grey scale. (‘fore sending to PhotoGrav.) Seems to make quite a difference! Do try this. Also, I learned, from someone on SMC, that in order to significantly “brighten” the image, or text, to rub the granite with oil based white paint - then, IMMEDIATELY buff off! (even bought a car-wax polisher/buffer for the purpose.) To get smooth “grass” or “water” to engrave with more detail, I over-enhance the sharpness, and brightness, of those specific areas.
As for photos on “aluminum” - (I mostly use black Lasermark, or LaserBlak.) Seems to hold up okay outdoors; have never had ‘customer complaint. Again, I’ve found a lighter touch works best. (35 speed & 23 power.)
For bare aluminum, I use Cermark LMM6000 spray. - while applying those same techniques mentioned to adjust the photo. And try this: whether wood, granite, or metals, I often use Photoshop’s “color balance” to colorize a person’s attire, so, for example, a shirt is more easily distinguishable from pants, etc. Colorizing garments, and sharpening to bring out creases, etc. even works with wedding photos; 'least most of the time. In one case I made the man's Tux bright green!
Hopefully, there’s ‘couple ideas in here for you? BILL

[Scott Shepherd]

Bill, great work, as always! That dog on the granite is probably one the best things I've ever seen on granite. Fantastic job. Do you ever mess with black marble? It's so much better for photos, but not as easy to find.

[Bill Stearns]

Bill, great work, as always! That dog on the granite is probably one the best things I've ever seen on granite. Fantastic job. Do you ever mess with black marble? It's so much better for photos, but not as easy to find.

SCOTT;
Sure appreciate your nice comments! Engraving granite pet memorials, I’ve had customers break down in tears, at times! Nope, I haven’t tried photos on “marble”; kinda reluctant to change horses in mid-stream! Plus, not sure where to acquire it? To keep costs down for my customers, I was using Home Depot’s black granite 12” x 12” tiles for the longest time; cutting to whatever smaller sizes required. (still do, sometimes, depending upon the job ‘n customer’s finances.) But, have mostly switched to using Johnson’s granite: smoother ‘n without those annoying tiny specs.
BTW: That dog’s picture I show, on granite, is an example of where I super-sharpened, and colorized (color balanced) the pure white fur, to get it to engrave with better detail than it would’ve otherwise. Thanks ‘gain for your encouraging comments! BILL

[Scott Shepherd]

Bill, I don't have a source for black marble, but I have talked to tile dealers and they tell me it is available in almost pure black, no veining. I had some here that I did some photos on and it was amazing. Unlike granite, which is essentially black or white, marble will hold shades of gray. The difference between photos on marble and photos on granite and night and day. I'm not suggesting you switch mid stream, but rather just seek it out and give it a try because your work would me mind boggling on black marble. I had a tiger I engraved on a 12" x 12" tile that sat on a stand in our lobby for years. People commented on it all the time. It was amazing. Then we had the doors open one nice day and a breeze came through and slammed a door on that wall so hard that it knocked the piece off the shelf and broke it. I keep saying I need it find another piece and do it over.

Do yourself a favor, next time you are at Home Depot, see if they have any black. Doesn't have to be pure black, but just pick up a couple pieces to play with. You'll quickly see what I'm talking about.