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Thread: Veritas Shooting plane vs my lN LAJ for shooting

  1. #16
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    I am interested in Chet’s comment about using the smaller LV Miter plane 90% of the time for quick shooting. I tried the LV Miter and the larger shootingr plane at a woodworking show in Atlanta. I was considering buying the Shooting plane but did not do it because, at first blush, I liked the Miter plane better. The Miter plane has a couple other advantages from my view. First the “horn” can be attached to either side, allowing one to use it from left or right. Second it is probably used more from differing angles to the work, which “normal” fixed shooting beds can not do. It can be handy to approach the grain from the appropriate angle to keep from tearing it out. If, however, the plane, rather than the blade, can be angled to the grain one has more flexibility in approaching the grain. I guess this second supposition is only true if the piece being worked is oriented on something like the edge of a bench witih a 3-6” wide edge that can serve to slide the plane over.

    I can see how those who are after very exact results prefer the larger plane and a fixed running surface, to sneak up on precise fits. Still it seems there may be a need for a plane used to work longer less consistent edges, as I suspect Chet is referring to. I probably should add that, contrary to what I originally thought would be the kind of work I would be doing, I tend to work from rough or even split wood. Getting that first straight flat edge can be difficult.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 11-09-2017 at 9:08 AM.

  2. #17
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    One could spend a bit, and buy a "Lion Trimmer".....part is held at any angle, blades slide by and slice off what ever sticks out. Picture framers used them all the time.

  3. #18
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    Pulled the trigger on the LV shooter. As pointed out in another thread, out of stock to November 30 but I can wait.

  4. #19
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    I had been using a Veritas low angle jack, and when the shooting plane came out years back I decided to pull the trigger. I really thought I was going to regret spending that much $$$ when the low angle jack did well enough. Let me tell you- the shooter is awesome! It's partly the heft, partly the skewed blade, and partly the adjustable handle that make the difference over the low angle jack. In my humble opinion, a shooter is something that should come later in the game if you are short on $ and purchasing one tool at a time, but it is certainly nice, and it's a game changer for fitting miter joints. If you already have a good quality jack, jointer, smoother, and block plane, then go for the shooter. You won't regret it.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    I am interested in Chet’s comment about using the smaller LV Miter plane 90% of the time for quick shooting. I tried the LV Miter and the larger shootingr plane at a woodworking show in Atlanta. I was considering buying the Shooting plane but did not do it because, at first blush, I liked the Miter plane better. The Miter plane has a couple other advantages from my view. First the “horn” can be attached to either side, allowing one to use it from left or right.
    They have very different strengths. Yes, you can shoot both directions with the miter, but its cutting mechanics (what happens at the wood) are no better than any other unskewed BU plane with a 12 deg bed, so if you only use it that way you're basically paying the cost of a new plane so that you can use that horn instead of a hot-dog.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    Second it is probably used more from differing angles to the work, which “normal” fixed shooting beds can not do. It can be handy to approach the grain from the appropriate angle to keep from tearing it out


    This is the miter plane's real strength IMO, but it only really applies if you use it with a miter jack or freehand. This is why I have one. Even in those cases, it's (basically) a BUS with flat sides and tweaked ergonomics though.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 11-09-2017 at 12:02 PM.

  6. #21
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    Hi Mike,
    Great write-up on your thoughts of the difference between the LV. SP. and the MP. A lot better than I could have done. I, in no way intended to sway the OP towards the MP but rather to point out my experience in the way I use them. At only $22 difference (with PMV11 blades) it's hard to justify the MP over the SP especially with the 20* skewed bedded blade on the SP. My shop area is only 9 ft. x 16 ft. with a 2 ft. x 4 ft. bench so space and maneuverability is at a premium. The horn for comfort and stability and the type of shooting board as described in the video I mentioned turned out to be a big deal for the way I work. As always it comes down to the individual person's level of comfort, what they do and how they work. Having tried both planes at the show you went to I'd be interested in hearing which way you go. Testing both at the same time is something few of us get to experience. Again, great write-up.
    Chet

  7. #22
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    Tony,
    Vary good choice, I wish you nothing but success. Only 21 more days plus delivery time
    Chet

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm Schweizer View Post
    I had been using a Veritas low angle jack, and when the shooting plane came out years back I decided to pull the trigger. I really thought I was going to regret spending that much $$$ when the low angle jack did well enough. Let me tell you- the shooter is awesome! It's partly the heft, partly the skewed blade, and partly the adjustable handle that make the difference over the low angle jack. In my humble opinion, a shooter is something that should come later in the game if you are short on $ and purchasing one tool at a time, but it is certainly nice, and it's a game changer for fitting miter joints. If you already have a good quality jack, jointer, smoother, and block plane, then go for the shooter. You won't regret it.
    the ergonomics and the skew were main points in my decision to go ahead. With my disability, any thing that makes woodworking easier makes it more possible for me to actually accomplish something.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chet R Parks View Post
    Tony,
    Vary good choice, I wish you nothing but success. Only 21 more days plus delivery time
    Chet
    Thanks. As slow as I work it won't be too much of a problem.

    also, Malcom, only thing I almost added was a custom Jack as my LN LAJ is my only #5 size plane. Then I decided to get some camera gear instead.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Wilkins View Post
    the ergonomics and the skew were main points in my decision to go ahead. With my disability, any thing that makes woodworking easier makes it more possible for me to actually accomplish something.
    The part about a disability being part of the consideration must have slipped by me if it was mentioned.

    My first post in this thread mentioned my reason for purchasing a low angle jack:

    My reason for switching to a LAJ for shooting is an old shoulder injury.
    If the LV shooting plane was available at the time it might have been my choice. As it is, the left hand shooting plane may get my wallet opened.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    I am interested in Chet’s comment about using the smaller LV Miter plane 90% of the time for quick shooting...
    I didn't expand on Chet's comment earlier, because the OP has a bevel up jack, and I don't think the miter plane would be as much of an upgrade from that.

    I have both the Veritas Shooting plane and the Miter plane, but I don't have a Low Angle Jack (although I have used my Jack Rabbit with an added wooden face). As others have stated, it really depends on how you work. I mainly use the Miter plane because I have a bench hook / shooting board that I also use as my main working surface. I occasionally clamp a board in the chute (gutter) as an added fence when I am working, which doesn't work well with a track. The Shooting plane is clumsier to use on a shooting board that doesn't have a track, than the Miter plane, so I use my Miter plane. The Miter plane is also a little easier to use if you want to finesse when shooting. I can also add that the Miter plane is an upgrade from a Small Bevel Up Smoother for shooting.

  12. #27
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    Thanks for your thoughts guys. Pat, my experience with the two planes may relate to the relatively small benchhook/shooting board, LV had available to try the two planes out on. I am interested in a tool that works well without a fixed track. I own a LV BUS but not the smaller flat sided BU plane. I believe most hotdogs are made to be used either right or left handed. The handle on the Miter Plane seems to me to fit well whichever way it is used. At the moment my right hand is “sprained”....

    I decided not to second guess my experience trying the two planes out. I ordered the Miter Plane, just under the LV free shipping wire. As Chet mentions above, my decision is based on my unique needs, as others should be as well. I also added an E C Emmerich Scrub plane to my order, as I have read good things about it on SMC. I tend to work very rough or split logs that a “real” scrub may help with. I may even leave the plane, inshave, drawknife, axe & adze marks in some of my work. I am interested in surfaces with more texture.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 11-10-2017 at 11:15 PM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    . I also added an E C Emmerich Scrub plane to my order, as I have read good things about it on SMC. I tend to work very rough or split logs that a “real” scrub may help with. I may even leave the plane, inshave, drawknife, axe & adze marks in some of my work. I am interested in surfaces with more texture.
    Mike,
    FWIW - I have been using the ECE Scrub for over 40 years and love it for both initial flattening and texture.

  14. #29
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    John good thoughts regarding where the Miter Plane shines.

    Good to know yours ECE is going strong after 40 years Bill. No worries regarding the wood wearing out vs a metal scrub.y
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 11-13-2017 at 7:34 AM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    John good thoughts regarding where the Miter Plane shines.

    Good to know yours is going strong after 40 years Bill. No worries regarding the wood wearing out vs a metal scrub.
    One thing that I really like about the miter plane is the "T-shaped" iron, similar to but smaller than the one in the Jack Rabbet. The result is that you can grip with your fingers along nearly the full interior depth of the sidewall, which IMO is an ergonomic improvement over its Scottish antecedents. I didn't intend to come across as negative about the plane in my previous post as I like mine a lot. I think that it's somewhat specialized relative to most peoples' needs, but it appears that it meets your needs nicely and that's all that matters.

    The ECE is a terrific scrub. If I'd known then what I know now I would have chosen it over the LV Scrub. The latter is a perfectly fine 40-1/2 style scrub, but I've come to prefer wood-bodied planes for roughing. As noted in another thread the ECE is a boxwood sole and is pretty bombproof as a result.

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