Sterile diamond plates?

[Pat Barry]

I deleted my post. Sorry about my previous comment

[bridger berdel]

I think for the final edge at least you'll get better results from spyderco uf than diamond.

[John Gornall]

What happened to Canica Designs a surgical tool company started by Leonard Lee the founder of Lee Valley tools after he retired and turned Lee Valley over to his son Rob.

[Andrew Hughes]

I do side work for a friend that assemblys equipment in hospitals. It wasn't too long ago the I walked past a Van parked at the loading dock.Two guys in there shaping or sharpening all kinds of surgical instruments.They each had a half dozen different grinders and several buffers. After I stopped my lusting I thought it standard operating procedure for hospitals.

[Patrick Chase]

The metal particulate is not too concerning. We try to avoid it in the joints, but it happens. Sometimes, we need to use a diamond-tipped burr to cut through a total hip implant (which are usually CoCr, very hard). Sparks literally fly.

An orthopedic surgeon. I should have known :-)

My 3 y/o has a little doctors' kit that she brings whenever she has to go in. A while back she insisted (all on her own) on adding a toy saw and screwdriver to it, so I coached her to say "I'm an orthopedist" [*] if the doctor ever asked about those. You should have seen the look on the pediatrician's face.

[*] Actually I initially tried for "I'm an orthopedist, would you like an amputation", but that turned out to be a bit much.

[Patrick Chase]

I think for the final edge at least you'll get better results from spyderco uf than diamond.

Yep, but those are ceramic and a tiny bit porous if memory serves, which would tend to rule them out.

Another possibility is some sort of nonporous resinoid stone, though the ones in common use (Shapton, Naniwa SuperStone) don't deal well with prolonged high moisture levels and might have trouble with the disinfection process.

You might also consider a disposable lapping film. Those use resins to stick the abrasive to the polyester backing, but IIRC they're mostly thermosets rather than thermoplastics, so I bet they'd survive the required single trip through the autoclave.

[Robbie Buckley]

Why not use diamond plates and store them in alcohol? Use alcohol for the lubricant as well. Not much lives in 70% ethanol.

[Jake Elkins]

Why not use diamond plates and store them in alcohol? Use alcohol for the lubricant as well. Not much lives in 70% ethanol.

While this would no doubt work (maybe? Some spores, like anthrax, are notoriously tolerant to chemicals), there are usually strict protocols in place for what forms of sterilization work. Additionally, these methods are "tested" with indicators which must be visually confirmed before the instruments are placed in the field, and I am not sure if such an indicator is available for alcohol submersion.

[Lee Schierer]

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't most diamond sharpening stones made with a plastic matrix filling in the voids in the diamond grid? Most plastics won't take 270 degree temps.

[John K Jordan]

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't most diamond sharpening stones made with a plastic matrix filling in the voids in the diamond grid? Most plastics won't take 270 degree temps.

Those I have from Woodturners Wonders are diamond grit bonded over the entire surface of a heavy 1/4" thick metal plate, no plastic.

https://woodturnerswonders.com/colle.../diamond-hones
I see he offers these but I think he can order any size plate and any grit up to at least 1200. I ordered three 3"x8" plates with a different diamond grit on each side. I bought them initially for sharpening ceramic cutters and they worked well.

JKJ

[Patrick Chase]

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't most diamond sharpening stones made with a plastic matrix filling in the voids in the diamond grid? Most plastics won't take 270 degree temps.

No. Diamond lapping films like the 3M 668X that LV sells are made that way, but plates aren't. The plates use electroplated nickel to "fill the voids" and bond the diamonds to the underlying steel substrate.

The only resin-based diamond plate that I know of is the Shapton flattening plate, but they expressly warn not to use that one on tools precisely because the bond isn't up to the job.

[Patrick Chase]

Those I have from Woodturners Wonders are diamond grit bonded over the entire surface of a heavy 1/4" thick metal plate, no plastic.

Those use electroplated nickel for bonding, just like DMT/Atoma/Trend/iWood/etc.

Now that I think of it I'm not absolutely sure how the EZE-Lap plates are made, so those may be an exception. They certainly have a unique surface color.

[James Waldron]

Yep, but those are ceramic and a tiny bit porous if memory serves, which would tend to rule them out.

Another possibility is some sort of nonporous resinoid stone, though the ones in common use (Shapton, Naniwa SuperStone) don't deal well with prolonged high moisture levels and might have trouble with the disinfection process.

You might also consider a disposable lapping film. Those use resins to stick the abrasive to the polyester backing, but IIRC they're mostly thermosets rather than thermoplastics, so I bet they'd survive the required single trip through the autoclave.

I scrub my Spyderco stones every week or two in dish washing detergent in a sink full of water; if that doesn't clean everything, I dust 'em with Bar Keeper's Friend and scrub with a non-abrasive pad (3M white) that works a charm. When clean, they show a pretty good level of hydrophobicity; droplets run off quickly, but when you can hold it flat enough, droplets bead up with a pretty steep contact angle (a primary measure of hydrophobicity). Never seen any sign of water sinking into the surface, as when rinsed, they drain dry and water rolls right off like a freshly waxed car fender. If they are porous, it would be good to have a cite to a source of this wisdom, if you can recall it.

I'd think a Spyderco medium and ultra-fine in combination would be just what the Doctor ordered. (So to speak.) Since they are all ceramic (Al203), they will have no trouble with sterilization. They are happy being used dry, although a bit of liquid helps manage the swarf. In the OR context, alcohol would do nicely; n-saline would also work well, if the steel instruments are rinsed in pure water and dried afterwards. (n-saline will wet the surface and perform better than pure water.)

[Patrick Chase]

I scrub my Spyderco stones every week or two in dish washing detergent in a sink full of water; if that doesn't clean everything, I dust 'em with Bar Keeper's Friend and scrub with a non-abrasive pad (3M white) that works a charm. When clean, they show a pretty good level of hydrophobicity; droplets run off quickly, but when you can hold it flat enough, droplets bead up with a pretty steep contact angle (a primary measure of hydrophobicity). Never seen any sign of water sinking into the surface, as when rinsed, they drain dry and water rolls right off like a freshly waxed car fender. If they are porous, it would be good to have a cite to a source of this wisdom, if you can recall it.

I don't recall where I got that impression, but note that the fact that liquid water doesn't penetrate something says nothing about its porosity.

A simple counter-example to prove my point: Gore-Tex is highly porous, but liquid water has surface tension far too high to pass through it, at least in the absence of very high pressure. That's sort of the entire point.

[Matt Lau]

Finally a question that I'm qualified to answer!

I'm a dentist, and really hate dull edges.
While hand scalers have traditionally been sharpened with Arkansas stones, I think that ceramics do a better job.
I'm not a huge fan of diamonds aside from major reprofiling of edges--they are too aggressive for my micro-chisels/hoes for onlays.
Surgical instruments tend to be fairly soft IMHO...but Arkansas can be sorta slow and ditch more easily (depending on the quality of the stone).

About 3 years ago, multiple dental suppliers started selling ceramic stones as "new, revolutionary sharpeners" for hygienists.
They'd take a cheaper version of something you'd see from Spyderco or Fallkniven, and sell it for triple the price to dentists.
Considering that these products should be FDA approved, I doubt you'd have issues with surgical use.

I'm not sure how strict your hospital is, but I don't think you'll have trouble sterilizing instruments.
The temperature for my Midmark M9 is about 200 c, which should be way lower than the bonding on diamonds or ceramics.
My SciCan is about 120 C, and used for dental handpieces.

I'll tell you what--I'm going to autoclave my Fallkniven CC4 stone and use it this afternoon.
I'll report afterward work.