Japanese vs Western vs Chinese tools- can someone comment on strengths/weakness?

[Robert Hazelwood]

Robert, than can be true but it depends on the smith. In my experience Konobu and Kunikei are finishing at an incredible level made all the more impressive by the fact that it is done mainly by sen (scraper) and file with the forge black left on the tool in a perfectly uniform fashion.

It's very hard to compare between the two, becuase western manufactures chisels are just that, manufactured. Manufacturing provides a level of consistency in finish from piece to piece that is more expensive to provide in a handmade item. At the top end the range it is a fairly consistent result.

Oh I completely understand why the price to fit/finish ratio is the way it is, and I wouldn't say they are overpriced by any means. In fact to have any amount of handwork for what they charge is pretty amazing. My experience has been with chisels in the $50 to $100 range, where in the best case they can do a good job on the forging and lamination, but have to rush a bit through the finishing. To some extent the roughness works with the overall aesthetic. My only real complaint is when the back of the tool is out of sorts- it is quite time consuming to correct this while maintaining a halfway decent ura. I have this in mind because I've spent the better part of this weekend flattening the backs of a set of 10 Kikuhiromaru oire-nomi in white steel #2. Each one with a significant concavity along the back, and a few with twist to boot. At least I can tell the steel is very hard, since my Shaptons seemed slower than usual

But in this price range you can get high-end manufactured Western chisels like lie-nielsen or veritas, where you can expect a negligible amount of work to get them in order. I don't think that makes them superior, since what I really want is a plain high-carbon steel run fairly hard. But for someone considering these tools it's something to consider. More is demanded of the user in setting up and maintaining the tool.

I would really like to get my hands on the higher end Japanese tools like those you mentioned. My plan is to slowly acquire some really ace white steel #1 paring chisels, finished with file and sen. These will accompany the more proletarian ws2 bench chisels.

[Brian Holcombe]

I agree completely. I don't really place a high value on perfect-perfect. I like a bit of handmade touch, handmade perfection as it were and also agree that the tell-tale signs of quality in my opinion as well beyond the superficial are those that make life easy for setup. Kikuhiromaru can be very good, especially in their white steel #1 tools.

By comparison here is the front, back and close up at the ferrule for;

Konobu;







KuniKei





Old type Kikuhiromaru (80's stock, they're cleaner currently)




Kunikei and Konobu are filed as far as I can tell, and Konobu is scraped along the inside of the ura for the gouge and the bench chisel is left forge black over what appears to be a ground surface. Kunikei from what I understand is also using a sen for the ura.

These are very accurately done, IMO, but they are not machine perfect.

The steel is wonderful, I have hours upon hours of carving oak on that Konobu gouge and there is not much visible evidence of it, if any.

[Stewie Simpson]

Brian; you might want to rework that cutting edge in photo #4

[Brian Holcombe]

Brian; you might want to rework that cutting edge in photo #4

The edge is fine, my photography/lighting is to blame.

[Robert Hazelwood]

Thanks for sharing those. The Kunikei in particular is lovely. And the skill to scrape in a neat ura on the gouge...impressive. Your Kikuhiromaru seems a bit like mine, concave on the back leading to removal of more steel near the heel of the blade than you'd like. In time the memory of this weekend's flattening session will fade, ha, and hopefully they will prove to have been worth the effort. I've heard nothing but good things about Kikuhiromaru.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks for sharing those. The Kunikei in particular is lovely. And the skill to scrape in a neat ura on the gouge...impressive. Your Kikuhiromaru seems a bit like mine, concave on the back leading to removal of more steel near the heel of the blade than you'd like. In time the memory of this weekend's flattening session will fade, ha, and hopefully they will prove to have been worth the effort. I've heard nothing but good things about Kikuhiromaru.

My pleasure!

That's accurate for most of Kikuhiromaru in my experience, some better than others of course. They're great chisels however, these have been through it and are my go-to.