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Thread: Combination Plane and Lee Valley feedback

  1. #46
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    Feb 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Lee View Post
    Hi,

    Am at the cottage, with spurious internet. It is also Thanksgiving weekend up here...so a bit tough to get ahold of staff, so I will have to go on my memory...which, while I trust is accurate, I will still have to verify on Tuesday.
    Firstly, I am aware of only one ticket opened against this plane, and that was for some epoxy bleed-through at the base of some handles. We pulled and checked stock for this, though some customers may have planes with this. Of course, we will put right any with this cosmetic issue.

    There is no customer call program in place... I suspect Mr Fretwell was called by London store staff as a follow-up...just being proactive. I still have to verify this.

    The planes are in continuous production at this time, so there are no different batches.

    One of the first customers to receive the plane did note that it was difficult to get the fence onto the rods - but once on, the fence moved freely. We diagnosed this as an order of operations error....the rods in the body were being clamped in place before the fence was mounted. The precision to which we machine holes in fence and body is such that there is only enough play in the system to assemble if everything is left loose. This is where I expect the store contacted Mr Fretwell - to see if he had a similar issue. I have no idea by whom or how the term wracking was introduced into the conversation, though it seems to have been. Most likely it was used before the assembly sequence explanation was diagnosed.

    As with any fenced plane, there is a learning curve to its set-up and use...and this one is no different. I will ask the store to set up a session with their Veritas champion (product expert) at his convenience to work through any issues he is having. This is something we are always pleased to do, for any product.

    Cheers,

    Rob Lee
    This whole situation makes a lot more sense now. A call from an acquaintance who works at Lee valley is different from a call from Lee valley customer service saying there are known issues with the plane.

    From the little use I've had so far with mine, it is a lot better than the combination planes of old. I hope you enjoy your demonstration William, and be sure to share any interesting tidbits you learn with us!

  2. #47
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    From the little use I've had so far with mine, it is a lot better than the combination planes of old.
    My opinion is the same after having a chance to use the small plow plane.

    It would be a hard sell if it didn't offer improvements over the combination planes of old.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    My opinion is the same after having a chance to use the small plow plane.

    It would be a hard sell if it didn't offer improvements over the combination planes of old.
    I have the LV combo and a #55. I've also tried the #45. As I alluded above, the most obvious difference is an overall feeling of "tightness" and precision. Everything mates precisely and locks down securely, with no observable tendencies towards "cocking" or other misalignments. The next most obvious difference is weight/bulk, with the LV being noticeably lighter and more compact-seeming in use.

    For the life of me I cannot understand what a user could do to get that plane to "rack" in any commonly accepted sense of the word. The rods are thinner than in the Stanleys, but the overall stiffness, including mechanical slop in the various interfaces, is better IMO. I went down to the shop and tried my best to get it to rack earlier today (mostly by intentionally "crossing up" my left- and right-hand inputs to transmit as much force as possible through the rods), but I couldn't.

    For an example of the sort of vice that the LV *doesn't* have but that the older planes do, the 55's front and rear fence tension knobs tend to "crawl" in opposite directions along the rods, causing the fence to become cocked relative to the skate. Like its other similar vices this isn't a killer (it's easy enough to compensate), but it undoubtedly contributes to the 55's reputation for being tricky to adjust.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    My 2cents. I believe it is similar to a marking gauge if you hang it off on edge and push down expecting the wheel or bade to crawl back up on top. If the iron is in a cut and the fence try's to pull it sideways it is enough torque to pull the fence out. It would not take much. A board a 64th out of parallel would ruin the cut and cause all kinds of grief if you keep pushing. My experience has been if the plane does not go along smoothly something is amiss. For me cutting beads is an easy push. You can take some deeper cuts when plowing and possibly get ragged edges but if you pull against a bead it will tear up the works. You can also make a big mess of things with improperly set skates.
    Jim

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Pallas View Post
    My 2cents. I believe it is similar to a marking gauge if you hang it off on edge and push down expecting the wheel or bade to crawl back up on top. If the iron is in a cut and the fence try's to pull it sideways it is enough torque to pull the fence out. It would not take much. A board a 64th out of parallel would ruin the cut and cause all kinds of grief if you keep pushing. My experience has been if the plane does not go along smoothly something is amiss. For me cutting beads is an easy push. You can take some deeper cuts when plowing and possibly get ragged edges but if you pull against a bead it will tear up the works. You can also make a big mess of things with improperly set skates.
    Jim
    I agree, you can unlock all of those achievements and more by misusing a combo, but none of those really constitute "racking". I'm probably insisting on excessively precise language here, though.

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "a board 1/64th out of parallel though". Like any single-fenced plane the LV combo cuts parallel to a single edge. It shouldn't be possible to have an "out of parallel" situation, as there's only one reference. You can certainly make mistakes like that with the second fence on the 55 though...

  6. #51
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    In the situation stated by the OP he was fencing on one edge and the bead was 5 1/2" away on the opposite edge. In that case you would be going forward and either pushing in or out if the two edges were not parallel.
    Jim

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Pallas View Post
    In the situation stated by the OP he was fencing on one edge and the bead was 5 1/2" away on the opposite edge. In that case you would be going forward and either pushing in or out if the two edges were not parallel.
    Jim
    It's sometimes easy to forget what the thread was about, to begin with.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    It's sometimes easy to forget what the thread was about, to begin with.
    My confusion was the OP said he was trying to cut an edge bead.

    I decided it needed a beaded corner instead of just rounded.
    My inclination when making an edge bead is to have the cutter and fence as close together as is practical for the result desired.

    If a workpiece is to get a bead and the grain is wrong for right hand planing then it may need to be set up to plane left handed.

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "a board 1/64th out of parallel though".
    If one is cutting along the edge of a piece on the opposite side from the fence, in some cases an out of parallel condition can cause binding or jumping. It is amplified by the rods applying leverage.

    A little miss-cut will further aggravate the problem on each pass by binding or causing torsional forces taking the plane off of its course.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  9. #54
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    long rods.jpg
    Somewhat like this?
    bead done.jpg
    And the cutters...
    bead cutters.jpg
    I set the plane up that way, as it was easier to balance it on the side of the box.
    Long rods, because the short ones were...too short.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Magnuson View Post
    I am also trying to understand what the need for full (or any) extension is in the process of beading an edge. The question was asked by a couple of others. If I missed the clarification, I apologize. Could you elaborate on what exactly you are doing, and maybe there can be a better approach that will give you good results?
    If you want the bead outer curve to blend into the line of the wood then the outside cutter protrudes beyond the wood. The wooden fence would have to be flush with the blade and would push it back in. The solution may be to cut a diagonal groove in the wooden fence to recess the blade edge. It would require two diagonal grooves in a cross pattern for right and left operation.
    Last edited by William Fretwell; 10-08-2017 at 8:32 AM.
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  11. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by William Fretwell View Post
    If you want the bead outer curve to blend into the line of the wood then the outside cutter protrudes beyond the wood. The wooden fence would have to be flush with the blade and would push it back in. The solution may be to cut a diagonal groove in the wooden fence to recess the blade edge.
    Ok. The way I set up is like the pics below, with the fence on the right when looking forward. This is how I did it without looking at the instructions and having not made beads with any combo plane ever. This allows you to easily run the fence to where the outer cutting edge is not engaged. Here are a couple of shots how I did it on a piece of rough-sawn sweetgum with a not-sharp blade from the 55. I have verified this is similar, but slightly different than the recommended configuration from page 5 of the instruction manual (Paper manual that came with it Fig 10). They remove the second skate for small beads and have everything on the opposite side, but it is doing the same thing just having the fence overlap the first cutting edge. I should read instructions more. Anyway, it worked well.

    For what it's worth, I flipped it around like the instructions and just did a piece of oak without issue. You just plane the bead on the left side and use the depth stop of the main body.

    bead2.jpg
    bead3.jpg
    bead1.jpg

    Correct config for 1/4" bead . In case you can't tell, the handle is on the table end and the plane is with the fence on the left when planing.
    bead4.jpg
    Last edited by Noah Magnuson; 10-08-2017 at 9:35 AM. Reason: added photo

  12. #57
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    Feb 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Fretwell View Post
    If you want the bead outer curve to blend into the line of the wood then the outside cutter protrudes beyond the wood. The wooden fence would have to be flush with the blade and would push it back in. The solution may be to cut a diagonal groove in the wooden fence to recess the blade edge. It would require two diagonal grooves in a cross pattern for right and left operation.
    Hi William

    I was able to produce this bead (which I'm sure you have seen before) with the original set up ...



    I suspect that you have too much extention on your blade. The blade on the Combo Plane I have slides over the top of the wooden subfence when set for a fine shaving (whichI believe is the way to go when using a beading blade on this plane). No alterations to the subfence were necessary.

    The beads below were made on the Small Plow. This has a wooden subfence I made, and it is slightly lower than that on the Combination Plane.



    No picture on file of the Combo set up, but here is the Small Plow. I set the Combo up the same way. Note that this is without the second skate.



    I do not see any problem with the removal of, say, 1mm from the upper edge of the wooden subfence on the Combo if that is needed to get you on track.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Last edited by Derek Cohen; 10-08-2017 at 9:25 AM.

  13. #58
    FWIW, I didn't see any need to modify the fence in either configuration. You can extend the blade quite a bit further than the thin shavings I was doing without hitting the fence, but wouldn't recommend it for a clean cut. I would guess my blade is about a half mm past the skate.
    Last edited by Noah Magnuson; 10-08-2017 at 9:36 AM.

  14. #59
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    If the fence is hitting the skates or the blade, there is a problem with the fence. Possibly the wood was mounted upside down if the holes are not on the center axis of the wood piece.

    In my experience a light cut to start seems to work best. If the wood is cooperating then advancing the blade can quicken the work.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    If the fence is hitting the skates or the blade, there is a problem with the fence. Possibly the wood was mounted upside down if the holes are not on the center axis of the wood piece.
    The fence on the LV sits about 0.05" below the bottom of the skate. If the fence is hitting the blade then you're taking an impossibly deep cut as Derek alluded. Backing that off will probably fix more than just the fence collision.

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