Anyone here brush on paint for face frame cabinets/raised panels?

[Kevin Perez]

Asking for a friend. Just kidding...

I am building a small built-in bookcase in our house (3' wide by 9' tall) that will have one exposed side that will have raised panels, solid wood shelves, and likely a face frame front that my wife wants to be painted some shade of white. I don't want a crappy looking finish that shows brush marks, and it seems like most everyone on this forum sprays finishes. However, I am reluctant to sink money into a good spray setup since I am just a hobby woodworker and very few pieces of furniture that I make will be painted. Have people here had good/"professional" looking results with a high quality brush and paint? If so, can you share your knowledge with me about equipment, materials, and technique? Thanks!

Kevin

[John Echenrode]

I've had success with Benjamin Moore waterborne Satin Impervo on doors and trim and cabinet in my bathroom. A good quality brush and proper technique are a must for a smooth finish. A foam roller works well on flat surfaces


I've also used the alkyd version of this paint on our kitchen cabinets held up for over 5 years with no chipping or flaking.

[Mel Fulks]

Just want to point out that paint used to be brushed on all jobs and brush marks were a sign of good paint that would hold up well. The brush marks were called "ropyness" and looked great in candlelight. There are still high priced brushed jobs that require brush marks. Don't wait for a "professional kitchen expert" to re-invent this.

[Bill Adamsen]

Kevin:

I used to roll and brush all my millwork including cabinet doors. Often still do.

The Ben Moore Satin Impervo (in Alkyd) was my "goto" finish for thirty years (have never tried the waterborne). It was a fantastic finish ... fairly easy to apply, get a repeatable finish, touch up, and very hard. More recently I have branched out to some of the other Ben Moore paints such as Advance and even Aura (both typically in matte ... sometimes semi-gloss). Sometimes colors are only available in one flavor ... for instance on a recent job the designer specified CSP-85 "Tweed Coat" which was only available in Aura. I used a smooth foam roller and high quality blended brush and it went on and tipped off beautifully. I did add an acrylic extender.

My understanding is that Advance is really a water dispersed alkyd paint with the same properties expected with most alkyds. I have done kitchen cabinet faces, doors, drawers and other millwork with the Advance and it works beautifully. I don't think any of these finishes are KCMA and they do seem less durable than some of the higher tech spray finishes.

[Adam Herman]

We did our whole kitchen with SW proclassic by roller and brush using the roll and tip method. Looks great and is holding up well. It does take a while to dry to full hardness though. don't wash it off for a month or so.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, for things like that which are already installed, I generally brush. For white, I use SW ProClassic Acrylic and for colors I've been using BM Advance. Both finishes brush out nicely for me.

[Jim Morgan]

Has anyone used both BM Advance and BM Aura Grand Entrance? I'm wondering how they compare. I used Grand Entrance on an exterior door a couple of years ago, and it has been outstanding.

Also, with these waterborne alkyds, what's the best extender/retarded to use? Is there an alternative to Floetrol?

[Bill Adamsen]

Also, with these waterborne alkyds, what's the best extender/retarded to use? Is there an alternative to Floetrol?

BM has their own extender recommended for any of their waterborne premium paints. I've used Xim (a Rustoleum product) with both Advance and Aura with success. I haven't experienced runs/sags with Xim (at least that I can see ).

[Sam Murdoch]

I have been on the search for an answer to this question for years since most paint brands have needed to comply with environmental regs and have reformulated. I have always been a good painter and have achieved car like finishes with the old formula oil based paints. Not so with the current water based acrylic enamels. Because locally the best paints available have been Benjamin Moore I have suffered through too many projects trying to achieve an acceptable hand applied finish on my cabinetry and built-ins. Their ADVANCE was supposed to be the problem solver. NOTTTTT - it is very thin, takes too long to dry - I think they recommend 18 hours between coats. Holy smokes, how can you do that on a job or more specifically, in a work shop. AND, it still needs an extender to help it level in normal 70° F temps and modest humidity.

Finally - I discovered Sherwin Williams PRO CLASSIC. This stuff is light years better than the ADVANCE. No comparison. Applies more easily (less runny), levels out by itself with a fair degree of wet time while applying and dries much faster to recoat (though off hand I don't remember the exact time line). It is a very acceptable hand paint product. I do add an extender to it because - why not - it does help with the leveling and the wet time but it is not really needed.

Be aware that light brush marks are inevitable compared to spray applied. Goes without saying but I say it anyway. No matter - I recommend PRO CLASSIC without reservation compared to BM ADVANCE. The per gallon price will scare you - retail around here is $73.00 per gallon for the PC compared to under $60.00 for the Adavance. I now have a SW account so my price is less than $ 50.00. I would pay the $ 73.00 if I had to. Well worth leaving the frustration and poor results of working with Advance behind. No looking back for me.

[Jim Becker]

Finally - I discovered Sherwin Williams PRO CLASSIC. This stuff is light years better than the ADVANCE. No comparison.

Sam, these two products are entirely different kinds of finishes. Advance is an emulsified alkyd paint in a water carrier...and that's why it requires the longer dry time between coats. It's essentially an oil based paint. It also has a longer cure time for the same reason. But properly applied, it's very durable. I don't find it "thin", either, although it sags easily. in fact, I've found it more difficult to spray because of it's native viscosity. ProClassic, on the other hand, is a 100% acrylic finish. It has a totally different feel and can be recoated quickly. It still has a cure time, however, relative to durability. The challenge with ProClassic (until recently and only if your local SW dealer stocks more fully) is that it was limited to lighter colors only. There was no deep base. They apparently have fixed that now, but I haven't asked my local dealer if they carry the deep base or not. And to be fair, ProClassic is also difficult to spray because it's darn thick...but it's excellent for brushing and that's how I apply it. BTW, BM's Impervo 100% acrylic is similar to ProClassic.

[Sam Murdoch]

Sam, these two products are entirely different kinds of finishes. Advance is an emulsified alkyd paint in a water carrier...and that's why it requires the longer dry time between coats. It's essentially an oil based paint. It also has a longer cure time for the same reason. But properly applied, it's very durable. I don't find it "thin", either, although it sags easily. in fact, I've found it more difficult to spray because of it's native viscosity. ProClassic, on the other hand, is a 100% acrylic finish. It has a totally different feel and can be recoated quickly. It still has a cure time, however, relative to durability. The challenge with ProClassic (until recently and only if your local SW dealer stocks more fully) is that it was limited to lighter colors only. There was no deep base. They apparently have fixed that now, but I haven't asked my local dealer if they carry the deep base or not. And to be fair, ProClassic is also difficult to spray because it's darn thick...but it's excellent for brushing and that's how I apply it. BTW, BM's Impervo 100% acrylic is similar to ProClassic.

Thanks for the clarification Jim. Still, all that being said - for hand brushing I will never again use Advance when Pro Classic is available. I should give Impervo another chance though. With Pro Classic I recently achieved a hand painted surface on some cabinetry that was, by far, the best in years. Could have been due to a number of factors of course - can't dismiss temperature and humidity. I wasn't paying that much attention but all those ducks might have been perfectly lined up. The ducks in my repeated Advance experience were apparently all dead .

[Jim Becker]

Oh trust me...I love ProClassic. My kitchen lowers, trim and wainscot is covered in it as is the trim in other rooms that I personally painted. (kitchen uppers are Advance...brushed...with no issues) This was all applied a year ago when I refreshed from the original sprayed finishes from 2003.

[Jim Morgan]

BM has their own extender recommended for any of their waterborne premium paints. I've used Xim (a Rustoleum product) with both Advance and Aura with success. I haven't experienced runs/sags with Xim (at least that I can see ).

Thanks for the info, Bill.

[Robert Engel]

I've heard oil based paints are no longer legal in some states.

Is this true?

[Sam Murdoch]

I've heard oil based paints are no longer legal in some states.

Is this true?

As I understand it in Maine - we can only purchase quarts. I don't know the details and it might be dealers choice but as I don't have access to many stores locally. I only know that from my sources I am limited to 1 quart cans.