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Thread: Dust collection

  1. #1
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    Dust collection

    http://www.tmart.com/SN50-High-Effic...2017-Fall-Sale I ordered one of these for the price of 15.00 and a long wait, I will review when it come in. I guess regular price is 26.00 still not bad if it works.
    Last edited by Lee Schierer; 09-25-2017 at 2:51 PM. Reason: fixed spelling

  2. #2
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    Ha! Wow that's wild. Well if they copied the design accurately from Oneida I cant see why it wouldnt work just as well. I figured those things didnt cost much to make but man thats REALLY cheap!
    If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rivel View Post
    Well if they copied the design accurately from Oneida I cant see why it wouldnt work just as well.
    The Oneida patent was granted about seven years ago. If Oneida has maintained their patent (paid the annual fees) one would think that patent still valid. And as the prior commented noted, this would appear to be a direct copy which I find offensive.

    Patent History

    Patent number: D668409
    Type: Grant
    Filed: Apr 7, 2011
    Date of Patent: Oct 2, 2012
    Assignee: (Syracuse, NY)
    Inventor: Robert M. Witter (Syracuse, NY)
    Primary Examiner: Ruth McInroy
    Attorney, Agent or Firm: Fitch, Even, Tabin & Flannery, LLP
    Application Number: 29/389,213


    Classifications



    https://www.oneida-air.com/PDF/DustD...t7282074C1.pdf

    https://www.oneida-air.com/pdf/diy%2...ual%202012.pdf
    "the mechanic that would perfect his work must first sharpen his tools.” Confucius

  4. #4
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    This advertisement serves to show just how grossly overpriced the Oneida piece is, whether it works as well or not. Molded plastic is cheap, no matter where it is made.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    This advertisement serves to show just how grossly overpriced the Oneida piece is, whether it works as well or not. Molded plastic is cheap, no matter where it is made.
    Not knowing the size of the market I can't answer that. But, even assuming it is a huge market, there may be many costs that come into play when manufacturing in the US (as opposed to other countries) that may impact the cost structure.
    "the mechanic that would perfect his work must first sharpen his tools.” Confucius

  6. #6
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    At one time, part of my job was to produce electronic product quotes as a manufacturing engineer for the automotive industry. All our vendors were domestic at the time. I have had lots of chances to see how much injection molded plastic costs. If Oneida can't sell enough of those things to achieve a reasonable economy of scale, I can't imagine why they bother to make them. These comments are coming from a person who owns a dust deputy and a super dust deputy. I bought them because they were worth it to me even at the outrageous prices. At the time I bought them, all other options were unacceptably inferior. Sooner or later, competition will do for them what Toyota did for General Motors.

  7. #7
    Besides, if Oneida, and I own their products too, overpriced though they may be, can't make and sell enough to reduce the price, how can this Chinese company? Clearly they are still making a profit at $16 and their market can't be any larger than Oneida's is, probably even smaller because of name recognition. Assuming similar quality, it makes no sense to buy the name brand when cheaper versions that work just as well are available.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    At one time, part of my job was to produce electronic product quotes as a manufacturing engineer for the automotive industry. All our vendors were domestic at the time. I have had lots of chances to see how much injection molded plastic costs. If Oneida can't sell enough of those things to achieve a reasonable economy of scale, I can't imagine why they bother to make them. These comments are coming from a person who owns a dust deputy and a super dust deputy. I bought them because they were worth it to me even at the outrageous prices. At the time I bought them, all other options were unacceptably inferior. Sooner or later, competition will do for them what Toyota did for General Motors.
    I have no doubts about your expertise on the cost of injection molded plastic products. My question is whether you feel it is legitimate for the manufacturer to factor in costs like research and development, patent acquisition, their own administration and overhead, product liability insurance and other indirect costs like these when they establish the price?

  9. #9
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    At the end of the day, it is all about return on investment and overall company profit at the end of the year. If you let someone else do all the investment, of course you can sell it cheaper. The Chinese business model seems to have no qualms stealing another's idea and running with it. And we play into it.
    NOW you tell me...

  10. #10
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    Well, I guess if you're OK with intellectual property theft and violation of patents, not to mention loss of revenue for local companies and their employees, then this is the object to purchase.

    Is saving a few bucks worth that?

    regards, Rod.

  11. #11
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    If I remember correctly, I think Clearvue claimed that Oneida 'borrowed' their idea for the Clearview Mini, came up with the Dust Deputy and patented it. I believe there was a lawsuit on that.
    Rick Potter

    DIY journeyman,
    FWW wannabe.
    AKA Village Idiot.

  12. #12
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    The same unit is now on amazon.com https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071GHFN15...506548775&sr=3 and good reviews also. I was looking for and waiting for a sale at Menards but ran across this one doing a google search.
    Last edited by Robert Willing; 09-27-2017 at 5:53 PM.

  13. #13
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    After reading all these reply it makes me wonder how the carbide tool companies cope with the aftermarket copies. In fact, multiple companies offer carbide replacements chips and they are USA based. In fact, one company offers a replacement table for your convenience. I am sure the cyclone concept has been around for some time and from multiple suppliers, both large and small unites.

    I know one wood working site individuals were offering tools and in fact, offered contests to purchase same. I don’t think Easy Tool was very happy. Than other sites started offering knock offs. I would think that free market reigns.

  14. #14
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    You are fighting a straw man and putting words in my mouth. The Dust Deputy is not "intellectual property". The concept of a cyclonic dust collector has been around since decades before Oneida existed. I remember one in the back of a cabinet factory in my home town in 1967 or 68 and I am sure they had been around long before then. If there is anything I learned from the years I was involved in automotive electronics design, it is that most patents don't hold up when challenged. Our front office used to have dozens of brass plaques hung on the wall for clever circuits to solve some particular problem. We quit doing this altogether when it was clear that they were worthless. Patents have to be unique to hold up. Little plastic cyclones are not that in my opinion. What you are claiming is similar to someone trying to patent a small wheelbarrow that only holds 1 cubic foot and is designed for small people.

    As for loss of revenue from foreign competition, I am intimately familiar with that. I worked for a "big 3" automobile company for 30 years. If it were not for foreign competition, the choice of automobiles would be the same today as it was in 1968 - terrible quality, overpriced junk made by companies and laborers who assumed the public would have to buy whatever they put out. The advances in automotive quality and technology were driven mostly by foreign competition. I know because I was there. If you really want to discuss theft of intellectual property, you should investigate where US auto makers got their high volume manufacturing technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    Well, I guess if you're OK with intellectual property theft and violation of patents, not to mention loss of revenue for local companies and their employees, then this is the object to purchase.

    Is saving a few bucks worth that?

    regards, Rod.

  15. #15
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    Well received my Oneida take off vortex dust collector. It is amazing for its size. Only 12” overall. Bought a HD 5gal bucket for the dust bucket, and what a mistake the walls are so thin they collapsed after picking up my lathe shavings. I switched buckets to one from a previous material purchase with heavier side walls. This worked. There were no shavings in the shop vac’s container. Also bought the HD Rigid combo hose 2 ½ “/1 7/8”.
    http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1-...2570/100375877
    This gave me more hose than I already had, what a nice bonus, now I can reach other places in my shop that I could not reach before.

    This combination hose fit the 50mm inlet perfect. The vacuum inlet fit with the addition of 1/16” gasket material wrapped around the hose fitting from HD. I reinforced the pale lid with ¼” ply. I am amazed at the vacuum this unit delivers.

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