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Thread: Crucible dividers?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    So much discussion about a simple but seldom used tool. What exactly are you guys doing that would require such an expensive solution?
    Seldom used?

    I don't know what kind of woodworking you do Pat, but the measuring tool in my toolchest I use least is the measuring tape. The most often used is my Starrett and other dividers. Yes, measuring, not just layout tools. Accurate, reliable and irreplaceable.

    Stan

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    So much discussion about a simple but seldom used tool. What exactly are you guys doing that would require such an expensive solution?
    Not sure if already mentioned, but Walker and Tolpin's 'By Hand and Eye' pulls together quite a bit of lore WRT use of the divider in layout work and descriptive geometry. Granted that much of the content is covered elsewhere in older woodworking, building, and related art and craft texts, consolidation of the layout tips and tricks into a single volume is pretty handy. If curious as to why some here use dividers on a more frequent basis than what you see in your own shop, it's a good place to start.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Covington View Post
    Seldom used?

    I don't know what kind of woodworking you do Pat, but the measuring tool in my toolchest I use least is the measuring tape. The most often used is my Starrett and other dividers. Yes, measuring, not just layout tools. Accurate, reliable and irreplaceable.

    Stan
    I use tape measures and rulers. I can see the purpose of a divider of course, it's perfect for certain tasks, but I stand by my statement of seldom used. What exactly do you use your divider for Stanley? I'll give you dovetail spacing as a given. You take it from there.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    I use tape measures and rulers. I can see the purpose of a divider of course, it's perfect for certain tasks, but I stand by my statement of seldom used. What exactly do you use your divider for Stanley? I'll give you dovetail spacing as a given. You take it from there.
    If I need to layout a tenon or mortise, I can measure the width, split the difference with a divider, and layout centered on a line marked on tenon or mortise or both. Quicker and more accurate than fiddling with marking gauges.

    When laying out mortises/tenons on stile and rails, a divider set to the desired height of mortise/tenon will ensure every mortise is laid out exactly. When doing multiple doors, windows, or shoji, the divider can be used to mark the story sticks (vertical and horizontal) used to layout each rail/stile.

    When making shoji with complicated kumiko, the precision and repeatability of a lockable divider with a fine screw adjustment is essential. Simple can't be done with a measuring tape.

    A divider used properly makes it easy to check for and eliminate accumulated errors. Nothing can do this as well as a good locking divider with a fine screw adjustment.

    When laying out legs and backs for chairs, a divider makes it easy to triangulate and mark centers quickly and precisely from a centerline on the seat's center.

    When doing trim work, or fitting floor boards to walls or around columns, a divider with a pencil attached (like the Starrett) can be used to scribe cut lines, transfer distances, and triangulate transition points.

    And of course, nothing beats a divider for precisely and quickly dividing a line/distance into equal parts.

    A divider beats every other tool at laying out angles, halving angles, and locating points on a circle.

    There are many other operations that a divider does best. I usually have three dividers, all with sharp points and fine screw adjustment, on my workbench whenever doing layout.

    There are a good reasons why the divider, along with the square and plumb, is the most ancient of mankind's tool.

    Stan
    Last edited by Stanley Covington; 09-02-2017 at 9:32 AM.

  5. #65
    Dang it Stan, you just caused me another obsession. I'll spend hours and hours figuring out how to do all of the things you just described......
    Fred

    [But I dont need a Crucible divider to do it. ]

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Skelly View Post
    Dang it Stan, you just caused me another obsession. I'll spend hours and hours figuring out how to do all of the things you just described......
    ]
    Touche! Just spent the last hour doing exactly this.
    "If you have all your fingers, you can convert to Metric"

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    I use tape measures and rulers. I can see the purpose of a divider of course, it's perfect for certain tasks, but I stand by my statement of seldom used. What exactly do you use your divider for Stanley? I'll give you dovetail spacing as a given. You take it from there.
    Different strokes for different folks. Most of the time my rulers and tapes do not get used on projects.

    Using comparative measuring devices like dividers, gauges and story sticks makes things fit together better for me.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #68
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    In the case of carpentry, consider the tables on rafter squares. Before the advent of the modern rafter square carpenters would have to layout root proportions on a wide flat board and develop modular scales for roof slopes and brace slopes, and set dividers to the models and step off story poles. The late 19th century square provides tables and needed scales for modeling that bypasses the whole development phase of modular scales and the carpenter could directly from the framing square set dividers and trammels to the modular values listed on the square. Knowing these principles, allows the carpenter to get down to work directly without resorting to computers or pocket calculators to handle the math. Puzzling through the problems of traditional layout will give the craftsman a deeper understanding and a more efficient approach. We have all heard the measure twice cut once mantra, why not template once cut a hundred. Why monkey around with all those measurements and errors? When viewed in the complete context, older methods could lead you into a more sure and efficient production.

    Sometime we get to attached to the modern gimmickry that steers us from direct thinking. Building is all about proportional thinking and dividers are the finest tool to handle the task of scaling up or down.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Covington View Post
    If I need to layout a tenon or mortise, I can measure the width, split the difference with a divider, and layout centered on a line marked on tenon or mortise or both. Quicker and more accurate than fiddling with marking gauges.

    When laying out mortises/tenons on stile and rails, a divider set to the desired height of mortise/tenon will ensure every mortise is laid out exactly. When doing multiple doors, windows, or shoji, the divider can be used to mark the story sticks (vertical and horizontal) used to layout each rail/stile.

    When making shoji with complicated kumiko, the precision and repeatability of a lockable divider with a fine screw adjustment is essential. Simple can't be done with a measuring tape.

    A divider used properly makes it easy to check for and eliminate accumulated errors. Nothing can do this as well as a good locking divider with a fine screw adjustment.

    When laying out legs and backs for chairs, a divider makes it easy to triangulate and mark centers quickly and precisely from a centerline on the seat's center.

    When doing trim work, or fitting floor boards to walls or around columns, a divider with a pencil attached (like the Starrett) can be used to scribe cut lines, transfer distances, and triangulate transition points.

    And of course, nothing beats a divider for precisely and quickly dividing a line/distance into equal parts.

    A divider beats every other tool at laying out angles, halving angles, and locating points on a circle.

    There are many other operations that a divider does best. I usually have three dividers, all with sharp points and fine screw adjustment, on my workbench whenever doing layout.

    There are a good reasons why the divider, along with the square and plumb, is the most ancient of mankind's tool.

    Stan
    That's a good list with some excellent examples Stan. Many of those same tasks can be done with marking gages as well as simple measurements. The divider, much like Jims story sticks do reduce the possibility of error for repetitive dimensions. I don't normally think of a divider as a compass though, since scratching layout marks is more destructive than a pencil mark. Dividing a 76 inch long dimen's ion into equal lengths though, I would certainly use a bit of math rather than guess and check with a divider. You could of course do the math and set the divider to the require length and then step off the spacings.
    Thanks Stan

  10. #70
    Good work,Roger! It's like 'when I was a child ...I used them for snowmen, but when I became a man ...I used them for louvers". A pair of old dividers always evokes design planning. Had a dear friend who had done a lot study on Christopher Wren. He said he even used them at job sites.

  11. #71
    Different strokes for different folks.
    jtk[/QUOTE]

    +1.

    Tage Frid relied on measuring tapes; Alan Peters used dividers (dovetails) and Sam Maloof went with chalk and rulers.

    One is better than the other, depending on when or what it is used for.

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 09-02-2017 at 7:31 PM.

  12. #72
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    Trammel heads.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Covington View Post
    Trammel heads.
    Wonderous things that solve many measurement issues.
    Jim

  14. #74
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    That's why I hang out with the neanders, learn how to better use the tools I have. Personally I haven't often used dividers much, mostly to transfer measurements kinda like a precise story stick.

    Part of the symbol for the Freemasons is a set of dividers. I doubt that was for looks.

    -Tom
    (not a Freemason)

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stenzel View Post
    [edited]

    Part of the symbol for the Freemasons is a set of dividers. I doubt that was for looks.

    -Tom
    (not a Freemason)
    They may have been the first to understand before they could be uniters of stone they would first need dividers.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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