Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 53

Thread: Firmer Chisels

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Dublin, CA
    Posts
    4,119
    Quote Originally Posted by ken hatch View Post
    The difference in the handle vs. the Narex bench chisel's was one of the reasons I ordered a set. While I'm sure I'm being unfair I can't get pass the bench chisel's handle.
    You can get the Narex bench chisels with the same handle as the firmers. See http://www.narextools.cz/en/bevel-ed...l-premium-8116. I bought a set of 4 on Amazon a while back as a gift for somebody.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    You can get the Narex bench chisels with the same handle as the firmers. See http://www.narextools.cz/en/bevel-ed...l-premium-8116. I bought a set of 4 on Amazon a while back as a gift for somebody.
    This is the set I ordered also, specifically because I thought the handles were so much better looking.
    I'm enjoying them so far.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Dublin, CA
    Posts
    4,119
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan Johnson View Post
    This is the set I ordered also, specifically because I thought the handles were so much better looking.
    I'm enjoying them so far.
    FWIW you can find details in Narex's catalog. The short version is that the handles on the ones you have are Hornwood, while the "lower-end" hooped ones are stained Beech.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Auburn, Al
    Posts
    35
    If you want a set of eight Sorby firmer chisels I just posted a set for sale in the classifieds.
    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...0-00-Auburn-Al

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Buie View Post
    If you want a set of eight Sorby firmer chisels I just posted a set for sale in the classifieds.
    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...0-00-Auburn-Al
    Bet somebody snaps those up pretty quick!

  6. #21
    Since people want to own firmer chisels, but don't know why; I'll take a stab: How about for stopped grooves, rabbits and dados?

  7. #22
    The term firmer chisel is an old name for what we now call a bench chisel. The term "bench chisel" shows up at the beginning of the twentieth century.

    In the 18th century firmer chisels were usually tang chisels and not bevelled. They also tended to be tapered in thickness (thinner at the bevel) and slightly tapered in width (wider at the bevel). The firmer chisels in the Seaton chest (over 30 of them) are considerably lighter than chisels available today and have no rings and no ferrules. Nicholson (1812) says carpenters used firmer chisels and socket chisels, and that joiners used firmer chisels, mortise chisels and paring chisels. Nicholson himself had been a journeyman cabinetmaker in the 18th century.

    In the 19 century firmer chisels began having bevelled edges and ferrules. Late in the 19th century one could buy tang firmer chisels, socket firmer chisels and bevelled edge firmer chisels of different combinations and lengths.

    I used bevelled edge chisels for decades, but now prefer chisels without bevels. It is nice if they are thin and delicate.

  8. Barr Quarton makes excellent, firm framing chisels. https://barrtools.com/product/framing-chisel-1-12/

  9. #24
    Warren, I doubt you have posted any faulty info. Am surprised if those chisels mentioned in the early books were called "firmer". Do you think the use of "firmer" is a modern editing for clarity ,or indeed precedes the Oxford ED date of 1823 ?
    Thanks

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Mickley View Post
    The term firmer chisel is an old name for what we now call a bench chisel. The term "bench chisel" shows up at the beginning of the twentieth century.

    In the 18th century firmer chisels were usually tang chisels and not bevelled. They also tended to be tapered in thickness (thinner at the bevel) and slightly tapered in width (wider at the bevel). The firmer chisels in the Seaton chest (over 30 of them) are considerably lighter than chisels available today and have no rings and no ferrules. Nicholson (1812) says carpenters used firmer chisels and socket chisels, and that joiners used firmer chisels, mortise chisels and paring chisels. Nicholson himself had been a journeyman cabinetmaker in the 18th century.

    In the 19 century firmer chisels began having bevelled edges and ferrules. Late in the 19th century one could buy tang firmer chisels, socket firmer chisels and bevelled edge firmer chisels of different combinations and lengths.

    I used bevelled edge chisels for decades, but now prefer chisels without bevels. It is nice if they are thin and delicate.
    What Warren said.

    ken

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    Warren, I doubt you have posted any faulty info. Am surprised if those chisels mentioned in the early books were called "firmer". Do you think the use of "firmer" is a modern editing for clarity ,or indeed precedes the Oxford ED date of 1823 ?
    Thanks
    Moxon uses the term former chisel in 1678, but he was not a woodworker, so this is not terribly reliable. Quite a few 18th century authors use former in situations where they are obviously quoting Moxon.

    Richard Neve says "firmer or former chisel", 1736 "Builder's Dictionary". Richard Washington Firmer in inventory, 1757. Croker says Former Chissel in 1764.

    Firmer chisel in Seaton chest inventory 1796, Nicholson 1812, James Smith "Panorama of Science and Art", 1815.

    Except for the Washington inventory, these are from original, not edited documents.

  12. #27
    Thanks,Warren. I need to do a new reading of the methods and terms of OED . I think there is something there about about the dates not always being the earliest but just the date of their example.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Dublin, CA
    Posts
    4,119
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Mickley View Post
    Moxon uses the term former chisel in 1678, but he was not a woodworker, so this is not terribly reliable. Quite a few 18th century authors use former in situations where they are obviously quoting Moxon.
    Moxon's usage is roughly consistent with the etymology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Mickley View Post
    Richard Neve says "firmer or former chisel", 1736 "Builder's Dictionary". Richard Washington Firmer in inventory, 1757. Croker says Former Chissel in 1764.

    Firmer chisel in Seaton chest inventory 1796, Nicholson 1812, James Smith "Panorama of Science and Art", 1815.

    Except for the Washington inventory, these are from original, not edited documents.
    I've seen plenty of cases where the "first known use" in Dictionary etymologies is off (almost invariable late), and that's particularly true for domain-specific terminology as here.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Dublin, CA
    Posts
    4,119
    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    Thanks,Warren. I need to do a new reading of the methods and terms of OED . I think there is something there about about the dates not always being the earliest but just the date of their example.
    You have to bear in mind that many of the definitions in the OED are very old, and vastly predate automated search technology. The original "F" volume was published in 1900, and the entry in question may date from then. The degree of information access that we all take for granted now was inconceivable then.

    It's therefore quite possible that the "first use date" in question was composed by somebody who simply didn't have access to the sources Warren cites.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 08-16-2017 at 10:49 PM.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    One old anecdote about firmer chisels was their name came from being able to take a firmer blow from a mallet.

    jtk
    Sabin Mroz, one of the "old guys" when I was a kid said he liked a socket firmer chisel because he could " sock it firmer".

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •