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Thread: It's been a year since

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Providence, RI
    Posts
    517
    The OP did not say anything to that effect - wishing he had had a SawStop and thus might have avoided his injury is not blaming the saw that he did have. You are making that up.
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 08-16-2017 at 12:31 PM.
    -- Jim

    Use the right tool for the job.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Central Missouri, U.S.
    Posts
    1,263
    Now I'm in a cult? Whoa.

  3. #33
    When do we vote for the new Grand Poobaa?

    I suppose the upside is we will always have a secret handshake.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    854
    Lot of vitriol aimed at a guy who permanently maimed himself. I remember this site being much friendlier.

  5. #35
    I don't see any vitriol aimed at the OP...

    I sense a sort of disbelief, in general, that a gentleman with a history of grand mal seizures would choose woodworking with industrial tools as a hobby. I, too, think hand tools would be a much safer/better option...

    and secondly, they are showing a dismay, in general, that more and more people have become complacent around dangerous machines (cars included) and are looking for technology to save them from themselves rather than looking in the mirror and learning proper technique. (Cars included)....

    If you make it a habit to text while driving, does that mean you "deserve" an accident? I don't think so... but the amount of sympathy you will receive when you put your car in a ditch is lessened significantly.... we reap what we sow.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rockingham, Virginia
    Posts
    337
    So many posts over the years about how good practice avoids injuries when using a table saw. All are true. The problem is that many folks cannot be perfect all of the time and folks will use tools when they should not. We all know that. If we could all be perfect there would be no need for any safety device.

    Problem with table saws is that it is a $400M/year industry that causes over $1 Billion in injuries every year. ( I forget the actual numbers - it has been a while since I heard Dr. Gass' undisputed the testimony.) Thus, it is fair to say they are inherently dangerous. I personally believe that making table saws without the blade drop technology is indefensible. Interestingly, the folks who own FESTOOL bought Sawstop. I guess it makes me a double member of a cursed class, for I love both.

  7. #37
    Man the tablesaw sure can bring out extremes in woodworkers.

    I remember, even before Saw Stop came along, on other forums 'passionate' discussions between the British and Americans over mandatory riving knives, blade guards, no dado blades, short rip fences and how great sliding tablesaws were. They were for them and you were flat out against all of it.

    Today you push for riving knives, blade guards and a lot now praise sliders. Short fences and no dado blades have a way to go through.

    Saw Stop is now the frontrunner in the tablesaw wars. What will it be in a decade? Maybe CNC routers?

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    2,479
    Quote Originally Posted by John Lanciani View Post
    But would you feel the same way if that camera added 8% to the price of your next new car? If SawStop was charging a $20 royalty to use their patents there would be almost no pushback but Gass has decided that he should get an 8% cut of the action in order to maximize his profit. If he truly cared like he pretends to the royalty number would be much smaller.
    If we have passed the philosophy of whether it should be mandated or not then we can talk about practical aspects. The numbers suggest table saw accidents are costing a lot annually (more than the sale of table saws altogether). So if that can be reduced drastically by adding 10% to the cost of each table saw I think that's still a clear choice.
    If we put emotions aside here (whether he benefits a lot from this or not) and look at how much we (the society) benefit, it again becomes non-issue.
    It seems to me a lot of resistance comes from the fact that people feel the inventor is benefiting or getting rich by this mandate and they just ignore the fact how much saving to the whole society we get.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    2,479
    I agree with you that in the OP case, he shouldn't use table saws. My argument isn't about people in those situations. I'm talking about general population of TS users. I've seen enough of professional (40+ years of experience) users lost digits for various reasons (somebody dropped a board behind them while making a cut, making multiple cuts routinely and a moment of lapse of judgment, etc etc). They are not stupid or incapable or not trained. These are all perfect users of TS's that like every other human being have moments that are not entirely in their control. They shouldn't pay a high price of loosing digits because of that.

    I sign off this discussion.
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 08-17-2017 at 10:34 AM.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,582

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Franklin, Tennessee
    Posts
    348
    I find this thread disturbing...but it's not the pro/con SawStop bashing which we have seen many times before.

    I have been actively trying not to join in this discussion, but since my thoughts keep returning to this thread, I feel obligated to toss in my two cents.

    Although I don't post much, I do feel a part of the Sawmill Creek Community. I check these discussion boards daily; I have learned so much about woodworking (and other things); and I have gotten to "know" several folks just by their posts over the years. My wife is probably tired of me passing along the tidbits, trivia, and valuable information I learn each day.

    The thing that sets Sawmill Creek above so many other discussion boards is the friendly sharing of information and overall helpful tone. I'm sure you have visited other DIY type forums where posting an innocent question leads to several predictable and snarky comments (e.g. "Use The SEARCH FUNCTION!!! Asked and Answered a million times!! OP is a dangerous hack, just asking this question reveals their complete idiocy, and if they don't use a licensed professional tradesperson that interprets the code in total agreement with me they deserve to have their house burn down!!) I have always been impressed by the civil discourse of SMC, the way we treat newcomers, and the polite and honest sharing of opinions.

    This thread seems to drift away from our long-term SMC philosophy... and that's what makes me nervous. I'm hoping that this is an aberration.

    I recently ran across a bit of wisdom that many of you have probably seen before... it's been attributed to many different philosophers. The advice is to consider Four Questions (or Gates) before hitting the "Submit Reply" button:

    • Is it True?
    • Is it Kind?
    • Is it Necessary?
    • Does it Improve upon the Silence?


    I truly hope that my current post does pass through the Four Gates, and that we can return to a more pleasant way to discuss the various methods of making smaller pieces of wood out of larger ones.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Balzonia View Post
    I don't see any vitriol aimed at the OP... I sense a sort of disbelief, in general, that a gentleman with a history of grand mal seizures would choose woodworking with industrial tools as a hobby. I, too, think hand tools would be a much safer/better option...
    My late grandfather had an undiagnosed (for many years) brain tumor that caused him to black out randomly and have dementia-like effects when he did "come to". Grandpa B. was an engineer and machinist-instructor for the US Army during WWII and pretty much taught me what I know about shop safety, but he was also a very proud man. One day, the police had to tow his car out of a ditch because he apparently blacked out while driving. It was a busy neighborhood. He went up on the sidewalk and took out a phone booth before crashing. A miracle no pedestrian got killed.

    Personally, I don't think a table saw with blade brake would be any guarantee of safety if you were, say, leaning over the table on the way out of a cut, blacked out, and flopped face-first onto the blade but thankfully, that didn't happen. This is a cautionary tale about safe choices IMO. Safe ww-ing to all.

    Erik

  13. #43
    Eric if you are willing to pay for a ham, new brake and blade I will drop that ham on a fully raised unguarded blade. That would roughly show whether someone in your scenario would be cut wide open or just have "tear along dotted line" marks.

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Christensen View Post
    Eric if you are willing to pay for a ham, new brake and blade I will drop that ham on a fully raised unguarded blade. That would roughly show whether someone in your scenario would be cut wide open or just have "tear along dotted line" marks.
    Humm, I wonder if the ham, not attached to anything, would be enough to trigger the brake. It might require that you be touching the ham as it hit the blade in order to trigger reliably. Or have a wire stuck in the ham with you holding the other end.

    But we could get a group together and test it and have ham sandwiches afterwards, no matter how it came out

    Mike

    [Based on my experience with the brake engaging, I would bet the if someone went face first into a SawStop blade, there would be very little injury, unless the first thing that hit the blade was the eyeball. It triggers and brakes very quickly.]
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 08-16-2017 at 6:04 PM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  15. #45
    Well with a chicken leg, tonights dinner, I touched the blade (saw off) with 4 layers of plastic wrap between me and the chicken and the warning light flashed signifying that the blade brake will activate if the saw is running. Touched the blade with the plastic wrap between me and the blade and no flashing. Touched the blade with my bare finger and the warning light flashes. That tells me that the ham would be protected whether dropped on its own or wired to a person. Remember that you aren't closing a circuit between you and the saw since there wouldn't be any current flow through you to the floor and into the machine. It detects a change in the electrical field through the blade when a conductive object is is added like flesh.

    Ham sandwiches sounds fine by me or corned beef. Heck I'd be fine with Sushi if you can get some fresh tuna or wild salmon!

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