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Thread: Anyone tried this: Peening your tenons

  1. #16
    I take it this is a different technique to "Bishoping" pins?

    This involves hammering protruding pins to try and get a better fit.......... a very crude method, frowned upon I think.

    David Charlesworth

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by david charlesworth View Post
    I take it this is a different technique to "Bishoping" pins?

    This involves hammering protruding pins to try and get a better fit.......... a very crude method, frowned upon I think.

    David Charlesworth
    A little different in the tip in that the vise is also needed and used in the second step. Hamming alone does not cut it according to the method presented in the tip.

    Simon

  3. #18
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    David, I wonder if that's where the term "Bashing the Bishop" came from

  4. #19
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    Not keen on the use of a vise, that seems weird and will put your references off and they note using the flat side of the hammer, which to my understanding is incorrect. One should use the rounded side of the hammer.

    Also, not many Japanese shops use a vise as far as I'm aware.

    This is nothing like bishoping pins, which I agree is not the way to go since it is damaging the pins.

    Not sure why there is so much fixating on the 'tuning' the joint, when this technique is applied correctly the tenon is purposefully made oversize and then peened down to fit with the expectation that it will decompress slightly and lock the joint together.

    This technique was discussed at length over the weekend at Kez by Douglas Brooks who mentioned boatbuilders using it extensively, some of these boat builders have been woodworking for 60+ years and many of them are top in their field. Also...their boats dont leak.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 08-10-2017 at 2:03 PM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Not keen on the use of a vise, that seems weird and will put your references off and they note using the flat side of the hammer, which to my understanding is incorrect. One should use the rounded side of the hammer.
    Rounded side which also requires less pounding force but more accuracy relative to the flat side-- 100% agreed.

    Simon

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post
    A little different in the tip in that the vise is also needed and used in the second step. Hamming alone does not cut it according to the method presented in the tip.

    Simon
    I can imagine that the ends of the tenon are squeezed slightly in the vise to the same effect as the hammering of the faces. Obviously much easier to hammer the larger faces. To Brian's point, either or both of these techniques might affect your references. Did they provide a dimension reduction target in the FWW article?

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    I can imagine that the ends of the tenon are squeezed slightly in the vise to the same effect as the hammering of the faces. Obviously much easier to hammer the larger faces. To Brian's point, either or both of these techniques might affect your references. Did they provide a dimension reduction target in the FWW article?
    The vise is not used to pinch the ends but to compress the area near the shoulder where the hammering cannot reach. The author also warns against hitting the shoulder (easier said than done, sometimes).

    That is also why it is not a crude method or tip I would use or endorse when other cleaner and better ways to do the same thing are available. In a few strokes with a shoulder plane, I can do what this "best tip" will do. I am constantly learning but this isn't something I will try.

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 08-10-2017 at 2:40 PM.

  8. #23
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    I did not see a target for reduction in FWW, but in other avenues of study I have read 1mm as the recommended amount.

    Again, removing material and compression material are not the same thing and done with a different purpose in mind.
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  9. #24
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    I can see the advantage in terms of boat builders and tub makers by producing a self caulking wood to wood seams, however, wood that is compressed and dimples is damaged with cell wall collapse. Time, moisture and glue will not reconstitute cell walls, so I would advise caution. Why add glue to a weaken surface? Why not use a toothed plane or a scraper body with jigsaw blade?

  10. #25
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    The message I'm attempting to convey is that one size does not fit all. Use it when appropriate, don't use it when inappropriate.
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  11. #26
    In case I wasn't clear enough. I am not against the tip per se or its author. People can do whatever they like. People should be encouraged to create or develop new, better ways of doing things. I have used mortise and tenon alot -- cut by hand, cut with a dado cutter or with a router, floating type and even dominos. I have tried all of them. Not one single joint fit using the usual approaches has failed.

    What I disagree with is Fine Woodworking thinking it is the best method as a tip ("Best Tip"). It is a tip, yes, even a good one to some. But the best tip? Is that the way to promote fine woodworking? I don't think so. But as someone has commented elsewhere, the quality of FWW has been slipping over the years -- more in recent ones.

    Simon

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post
    In case I wasn't clear enough. I am not against the tip per se or its author. People can do whatever they like. People should be encouraged to create or develop new, better ways of doing things. I have used mortise and tenon alot -- cut by hand, cut with a dado cutter or with a router, floating type and even dominos. I have tried all of them. Not one single joint fit using the usual approaches has failed.

    What I disagree with is Fine Woodworking thinking it is the best method as a tip ("Best Tip"). It is a tip, yes, even a good one to some. But the best tip? Is that the way to promote fine woodworking? I don't think so. But as someone has commented elsewhere, the quality of FWW has been slipping over the years -- more in recent ones.

    Simon
    Perhaps they meant the best tip of the month?

  13. #28
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    Frank Klausz shows a related technique to make waterproof joints in a YouTube clip.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PitVHP7omvY
    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

  14. #29
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    Peened the joints, it dripped for two hours then stopped. These are super simple, just rabbets.

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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post
    In a few strokes with a shoulder plane, I can do what this "best tip" will do. I am constantly learning but this isn't something I will try.

    Simon
    The idea is NOT to remove material and allow the wood to slowly come back to its original dimension. Planishing hammers can also be had with a square head like the one sitting in my tool box. This would allow working closer to the shoulder of the tenon. Peening is best described as putting divots into the material being worked and is commonly used to stretch metal prior to planishing which smooths the stretched metal. This link shows images of peening

    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=p...w=1227&bih=591
    Chris

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