If you had $400 to spend on a hand tool, any hand tool, what would it be?

[Mike Baker 2]

- a workbench --- getting really tired of working from a Workmate clone on the back deck and clamping to the deck railing or using picnic table benches for saw benches

I have been using a Workmate to build guitars for 7-8 years. It has been through 3 tops. But when I decided to go in the direction of traditional wood working, I knew I needed a proper bench.
I'm still building mine, but it's getting close, and I can't wait.
Beg, borrow or steal the wood to build one. You really, really need it.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I have been using a Workmate to build guitars for 7-8 years. It has been through 3 tops. But when I decided to go in the direction of traditional wood working, I knew I needed a proper bench.
I'm still building mine, but it's getting close, and I can't wait.
Beg, borrow or steal the wood to build one. You really, really need it.

Now finally having a proper bench (well- okay, I'm still finishing the vise chops) I only have one regret: that I took so long to build a proper bench. I could have done a lot more projects a lot faster with a proper bench and not using makeshift clamping arrangements to hold my work, or chasing my lightweight bench around the shop when planing.

I'm with Mike. Build a bench, and I will add: build it as heavy as you can.

[Kees Heiden]

I really have no idea where to spend 400 pop on a woodworking tool. There are some things lacking in my shop but these tools are usually a lot cheaper, like a framesaw for resawing (working on that) or things for green wood work. 400 for one tool is pretty extreme in my experience so far.

If someone would offer a nice complete, carved and dated 18th century Dutch plane for 400 I would probably jump onto it. Not much chance though.

[William Adams]

Agree on the workbench. Thanks!

Probably I'm going to do a weird hybrid portable thing, but one which I hope will be serviceable for the kind of work I need to do (breaking down stock for the CNC, jointing stock, and cutting joints)

Malcolm, very, very cool on the graphite frame saw --- sounds perfect, and I'm adding it (and the shooting plane as noted by andy bessette) to my wish list for _after_ the bench.

[Daniel O'Connell]

Though its a bit beyond the $400 target, I sorta fell in love with the Lie-Nielsen shooting plane at Handworks. Thats the only hand tool of that price that really appeals to me right now.

[Simon MacGowen]

Though its a bit beyond the $400 target, I sorta fell in love with the Lie-Nielsen shooting plane at Handworks. Thats the only hand tool of that price that really appeals to me right now.

Just checked. Wow, that is almost $200 more than the Veritas s.p.

Not that i need one, I shoot with a low angle jack.

Simon

[Daniel O'Connell]

Just checked. Wow, that is almost $200 more than the Veritas s.p.

Not that i need one, I shoot with a low angle jack.

Simon

Hah, yeah, it is really expensive and I'll likely never buy it. That said, at Handworks I was able to try both of them several times and I found the Lie-Nielsen to perform markedly better and to feel much nicer than the Veritas model. Its really the only Lie-Nielsen product that I prefer over Veritas, but it left an impression on me. And after pricing Stanley #51s, I'm not sure it isn't worth just buying the new Lie-Nielsen if I decide I want one.

I currently shoot with a Stanley #6. I really should pick up a low angle jack one of these days.

[andy bessette]

Good article on shooting planes.
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...tingPlane.html

[Daniel O'Connell]

Good article on shooting planes.
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...tingPlane.html

Most things Derek writes are good articles.

I had not considered the upside of a PM-V11 blade, that is one substantial point in the favor of Veritas

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Agree on the workbench. Thanks!

Probably I'm going to do a weird hybrid portable thing, but one which I hope will be serviceable for the kind of work I need to do (breaking down stock for the CNC, jointing stock, and cutting joints)

Malcolm, very, very cool on the graphite frame saw --- sounds perfect, and I'm adding it (and the shooting plane as noted by andy bessette) to my wish list for _after_ the bench.

He said look for it to be released in November. At the show, he told me there were legal issues he was working through before he could release it. I wrote to ask about shipping their African Blackwood to the USVI (Their site says they don't ship out of the US, but since we are a US Territory I wanted to see if they could ship to me) and I also asked about the saw. He wrote back and said he had worked through the legalities and he was targeting November for the release. Believe me, you want to save your money for this one. It was very well designed and even details like the shape of the handle were perfectly executed. I have quite literally set aside money for that- I even offered to pre-order if it were available.

[William Adams]

Thank you!

I know what I'm getting myself for Christmas.

[Patrick Chase]

Hah, yeah, it is really expensive and I'll likely never buy it. That said, at Handworks I was able to try both of them several times and I found the Lie-Nielsen to perform markedly better and to feel much nicer than the Veritas model. Its really the only Lie-Nielsen product that I prefer over Veritas, but it left an impression on me. And after pricing Stanley #51s, I'm not sure it isn't worth just buying the new Lie-Nielsen if I decide I want one.

I currently shoot with a Stanley #6. I really should pick up a low angle jack one of these days.

What were you shooting that the L-N felt markedly better, and what iron was in the LV?

I have the LV and have used the LN a bit. They have very different strengths and weaknesses, and I wouldn't describe either as unconditionally "better" than the other.

The LV is better at end grain, thanks to the option of lower blade pitch. You can realistically get down to ~37 deg with O1 or PM-V11, whereas the LN is 45 deg period.

The LN comes into its own if you need to shoot difficult long grain, because it's BD with a double iron. Insert obligatory exposition on the benefits of a close-set cap iron here.

I shoot end grain more often than not, which is why I have the LV. Of course they're both excellent planes in any absolute sense, and both can be made to do perfectly well at all shooting tasks. For example the LV can handle reversing grain, but requires a shallower cut and a steeper blade angle (which in turn increases cutting force and degrades the resulting surface a little) to avoid tearout. Similarly the LN does just fine at end grain, but requires a shallower cut to keep cutting forces within any given limit.

Obviously the Right Answer (tm) is to increase the budget to $1K and buy both.

[Patrick Chase]

[QUOTE=Malcolm Schweizer;2712766]

What makes it better than the Knew Concepts fretsaws, which are the current benchmark IMO?

It has a graphite frame, and it does not flex. I made some cuts with it at the show and it was a joy to use. The blade assembly could turn without releasing tension. Also the handle was perfectly shaped.

I hate my Knew Concepts saw. It doesn't flex linear, but it twists like mad and constantly breaks blades. I have literally never gotten it to cut properly, but the Blue Spruce saw cut like butter. No flex. I have the red anodized aluminum 8" saw. I notice they have discontinued that size. I can imagine why.

Two thoughts about the Knew Concepts:

1. Deflection of a cantilever beam fixed at one end and loaded at the other (which is a reasonable model for the arms of that saw) is proportional to length cubed, so the 8" would flex about 4X as much as the 5" model. With that said...
2. The frames of most existing fretsaws (including the Knew Concepts ones) are designed to provide high blade tension. They are not designed to resist high side or torque loads, which is what you seem to be describing. I've found that mine does OK provided that I focus on letting the blade do the work and avoid pushing it any more than absolutely necessary, but then again I have the 5" model :-).

It will be interesting to see how Blue Spruce optimized the layup in their carbon saw. It sounds like they designed in a fair bit of torque/sideload resistance, which would make it a very unique fretsaw.

[Daniel O'Connell]

What were you shooting that the L-N felt markedly better, and what iron was in the LV?

I have the LV and have used the LN a bit. They have very different strengths and weaknesses, and I wouldn't describe either as unconditionally "better" than the other.

The LV is better at end grain, thanks to the option of lower blade pitch. You can realistically get down to ~37 deg with O1 or PM-V11, whereas the LN is 45 deg period.

The LN comes into its own if you need to shoot difficult long grain, because it's BD with a double iron. Insert obligatory exposition on the benefits of a close-set cap iron here.

I shoot end grain more often than not, which is why I have the LV. Of course they're both excellent planes in any absolute sense, and both can be made to do perfectly well at all shooting tasks. For example the LV can handle reversing grain, but requires a shallower cut and a steeper blade angle (which in turn increases cutting force and degrades the resulting surface a little) to avoid tearout. Similarly the LN does just fine at end grain, but requires a shallower cut to keep cutting forces within any given limit.

Obviously the Right Answer (tm) is to increase the budget to $1K and buy both.

End grain in both cases, and I don't know what iron was in the LV, but if I was to hazard a guess it was the PM-V11 given that it was at Handworks. I also cannot say with any confidence the state of sharpness on either blade given that it was a public display and who knows how many people had messed around with them before I happened to get my turn.

I mean more accurately I liked the way the handle and mass felt and moved. I will admit I would need to use them extensively to form a fully fair opinion, especially on the blades, but if right now I was told "Go pick out a tool" the LN would be the one I'd pick.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

[QUOTE=Patrick Chase;2712934]

Two thoughts about the Knew Concepts:

1. Deflection of a cantilever beam fixed at one end and loaded at the other (which is a reasonable model for the arms of that saw) is proportional to length cubed, so the 8" would flex about 4X as much as the 5" model. With that said...
2. The frames of most existing fretsaws (including the Knew Concepts ones) are designed to provide high blade tension. They are not designed to resist high side or torque loads, which is what you seem to be describing. I've found that mine does OK provided that I focus on letting the blade do the work and avoid pushing it any more than absolutely necessary, but then again I have the 5" model :-).

It will be interesting to see how Blue Spruce optimized the layup in their carbon saw. It sounds like they designed in a fair bit of torque/sideload resistance, which would make it a very unique fretsaw.

You are spot on in your points. I agree that the 3" or 5" saw would have a lot less flex. I was sold on the 8" by their marketing but really wish I had gone with the 5". Believe me, I am very careful with it and consider myself a fairly experienced sawyer, but it still flexes for me. It is probably better for paper thin jewelry pieces.

Here is a picture of the Blue Spruce saw, which should say it all. It has molded graphite supports tied with graphite rod stringers. The handle and tensioner rotate in the frame even under tension. It was very easy to make cuts in the test piece he had at the show. I can't remember- roughly 3/4" thick and I seem to remember he had some maple and a softer wood. I made a lot of cuts and it performed flawlessly.

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