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Thread: Veritas combination plane.

  1. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Lee View Post
    Hi,

    A few general comments on some of the statements in this thread.

    Planes and prices...Stanley made hundreds of thousands of Planes....Veritas and Lie-Nielsen make hundreds, and rarely thousands. Everything we make is closer to bespoke, than mass production. They cost what they cost... and I make no apologies for prices.

    Blades.....I knew that our blades would be dear, which is why we made our plane compatible with Stanley and Record blades. You can pick up a set of blades ( with or without a plane) for probably $100-150, depending on condition. You will have to spend a lot of time lapping, and making them usable. Yes...they will be flat, concave, and convex. O1 warps when hardened. Manufacturers (well, those that know what they're doing, anyway) will ensure blades are oriented before grinding the bevel so that blades will be concave relative to bedding surface. Ours are flat, and lapped. All of them.

    PM-V11 choice....it hardens with better dimensional stability than O1, and retains an edge much longer. For complex profiles, we think it is the best choice. It would not be economic to produce them in multiple materials.

    I saw the first batch of planes running through assembly a week ago, before I left for vacation. I believe we are just waiting on boxes before we begin to ship orders.

    FWIW, people's preferences are what they are - that's what keeps manufacturing going.

    Cheers,

    Rob
    Thanks for posting this Rob. What you've said makes sense to me.
    Fred

  2. #107
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    You may want to give some thought on how you plan to resharpen those pmv complex profiles.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    You may want to give some thought on how you plan to resharpen those pmv complex profiles.
    PM-V11 sharpens OK on slips (oil or water). Not much need for thought there.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    You may want to give some thought on how you plan to resharpen those pmv complex profiles.
    Lee Valley has it covered:

    http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...71&cat=1,43072

    I have a set of the Traditional Water Slip Stones:

    http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...072,43071&ap=1

    To work when the weather is too cold for water stones a set of oil stones; a Chrystalon, an India and a Translucent Arkansas, round out the set.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  5. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    PM-V11 sharpens OK on slips (oil or water). Not much need for thought there.
    When I upgraded everything from A2 to PMV11, I kept the same sharpening media: water stones. The sharpening time has not gone up much noticeably. The biggest change I saw was when using the LAJ with the PMV11 for shooting. Much like the Energizer Bunny.

    Simon

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Lee View Post
    Hi,

    A few general comments on some of the statements in this thread.

    Planes and prices...Stanley made hundreds of thousands of Planes....Veritas and Lie-Nielsen make hundreds, and rarely thousands. Everything we make is closer to bespoke, than mass production. They cost what they cost... and I make no apologies for prices.

    Blades.....I knew that our blades would be dear, which is why we made our plane compatible with Stanley and Record blades. You can pick up a set of blades ( with or without a plane) for probably $100-150, depending on condition. You will have to spend a lot of time lapping, and making them usable. Yes...they will be flat, concave, and convex. O1 warps when hardened. Manufacturers (well, those that know what they're doing, anyway) will ensure blades are oriented before grinding the bevel so that blades will be concave relative to bedding surface. Ours are flat, and lapped. All of them.

    PM-V11 choice....it hardens with better dimensional stability than O1, and retains an edge much longer. For complex profiles, we think it is the best choice. It would not be economic to produce them in multiple materials.

    I saw the first batch of planes running through assembly a week ago, before I left for vacation. I believe we are just waiting on boxes before we begin to ship orders.

    FWIW, people's preferences are what they are - that's what keeps manufacturing going.

    Cheers,

    Rob
    Thanks for the detailed reply, and, I agree that there is no reason whatsoever to apologize for your pricing. LV makes great tools and the market will determine if prices are equitable. I for one feel they are good value vs quality. Quality being most important. Thanks again.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post
    When I upgraded everything from A2 to PMV11, I kept the same sharpening media: water stones. The sharpening time has not gone up much noticeably. The biggest change I saw was when using the LAJ with the PMV11 for shooting. Much like the Energizer Bunny.
    Stewie's using O1, not A2, and I suspect his slips are oilstones of some sort. He'd probably end up with a ragged mess with A2, though PM-V11 is fine-grained enough to get good results that way.

    For that matter the commonly available waterstone slips are mostly older pre-ceramic Matsunaga/King stones, so if you use those you'll probably take a step down from whatever you use on bench plane blades and chisels. PM-V11 is fine-grained enough that you can get a fine edge with basically any reasonable sharpening stone. but in the interests of speed I cut up a couple old Sigma ceramic stones a while back (using a hacksaw with a diamond blade - I'm sure there's a better way) and shaped slips from the pieces. Those do pretty well on hard steels.

    I've also played around with wooden slip-forms and various lapping films (mostly AlOx and some diamond) and pastes.

    My point in my previous post was that accurately re-sharpening profiled blades is generally a bit of a pain in *any* steel, so increased edge life is a bigger plus than it is for simple straight irons.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 07-28-2017 at 8:01 PM.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Lee View Post
    Hi,

    A few general comments on some of the statements in this thread.

    Planes and prices...Stanley made hundreds of thousands of Planes....Veritas and Lie-Nielsen make hundreds, and rarely thousands. Everything we make is closer to bespoke, than mass production. They cost what they cost... and I make no apologies for prices.

    Blades.....I knew that our blades would be dear, which is why we made our plane compatible with Stanley and Record blades. You can pick up a set of blades ( with or without a plane) for probably $100-150, depending on condition. You will have to spend a lot of time lapping, and making them usable. Yes...they will be flat, concave, and convex. O1 warps when hardened. Manufacturers (well, those that know what they're doing, anyway) will ensure blades are oriented before grinding the bevel so that blades will be concave relative to bedding surface. Ours are flat, and lapped. All of them.

    PM-V11 choice....it hardens with better dimensional stability than O1, and retains an edge much longer. For complex profiles, we think it is the best choice. It would not be economic to produce them in multiple materials.

    I saw the first batch of planes running through assembly a week ago, before I left for vacation. I believe we are just waiting on boxes before we begin to ship orders.

    FWIW, people's preferences are what they are - that's what keeps manufacturing going.

    Cheers,

    Rob
    Rob,

    Please keep doing what you are already doing and continue to improve it. We all benefit from it! I really appreciate the thought behind making the plane compatible with Stanley / Record blades. I recently purchased a Clifton that came with nearly 50 blades (full set of Clifton and extra set of Record). I have not used it enough to have a good perspective of how well it performs. However, if my past behavior is any indication, I see a Veritas in my future and I can "start" with just the plane.

    I have a ton of Veritas tools (mostly planes, chisels, etc.). Love them, the customer service and the company behind it. I also happen to think they are a great value when you factor in the "ready to use out of the box" and "easy of changing / maintaining settings" in addition to excellent customer service in case needed. Of course, time has widely varying value / cost to different people. Some would like to start using a well made tool, others love making an old tool work nearly as well. There seems to be enough of the former to support what you are doing and I hope it only increases.

  9. #114
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    Made some Maple flavoured noodles today..
    noodles.jpg
    BTW: The way to sharpen these cutters is hone just the backs. If'n you go messing around with those "complex profiles" you WILL change the profile...hone the flat backs only.

  10. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    Made some Maple flavoured noodles today..
    noodles.jpg
    BTW: The way to sharpen these cutters is hone just the backs. If'n you go messing around with those "complex profiles" you WILL change the profile...hone the flat backs only.
    Can't remember where I read it. Did Derek Cohen or someone mention this in one of his forum or blog posts(?).

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 07-28-2017 at 11:10 PM.

  11. #116
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    The only place I MIGHT hone would be the flats to either side of the profile. I do not touch the curved profiled areas. Nor, do I mess with "back bevels" on them. Easier to just read the grain.

  12. #117
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    BTW: The way to sharpen these cutters is hone just the backs. If'n you go messing around with those "complex profiles" you WILL change the profile...hone the flat backs only.
    How can my doing it so wrong come out working so right?

    Here is my post with some "complex profile" blade sharpening:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...hab-Enthusiast

    The blade honing starts about the 10th post down.

    Also a piece from a book by someone who probably did this before many of us had molding planes in our shops:

    https://blog.lostartpress.com/2017/0...plane-cutters/

    The point is to not "go messing around with those 'complex profiles'" but to learn how to maintain them without changing the profile. Honing just the backs will still leave a burr that needs to be removed from the bevel side. Many older molding plane blades are laminated and one could eventually hone away the hardened steel.

    Besides, some of my molding plane blades have been "messed with" in the past and needed anywhere from a little to a lot of honing on the bevel side of the blade.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 07-29-2017 at 1:06 PM. Reason: clarity
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  13. #118
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    The edge consists of two surfaces, right, both need to be addressed with proper honing. I suggest you guys talk to carvers or turners about how they sharpen their tools because they are complex as well and commonly used and sharpened.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Taran View Post
    I was merely trying to inquire as to why someone would buy something new costing 4X what an older model would cost
    Availability and time. Most of us don't have the MWTCA meets within driving distance. Buying anything used is a bit of a crapshoot. Buying something used over the internet is even more of a crapshoot. People who enjoy the hunting and bagging of rust don't count the time spent doing so as a 'cost', those of us who don't enjoy it, do count the time. So the cost of used goes up. It ain't 1/4 the price anymore. Then there's the time getting the used thing back into usable condition. One could get lucky, and it doesn't take much time. Or it could be that the reason the #45 was in pristine condition is because it was fubar from the factory. In which case the buyer is SOL.

    I've bought new planes, and I've bought used. The vast majority of my future plane purchases (of which there really won't be many, I'm pretty well set) will be new. My time is more valuable to me than saving the money, and there's plenty of others out there who get more pleasure out of resurrecting an old plane than I. I'll leave that harvest to them.
    It came to pass...
    "Curiosity is the ultimate power tool." - Roy Underhill
    The road IS the destination.

  15. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Taran View Post
    I'm having a hard time seeing how the economics of this work. I get the idol worship thing, guys buying one of everything a company makes, just because they love the company that much.

    Having said that, at the MWTCA meet I attended a month or so ago, there were dozens of 45s complete in the box with all the blades, even the Stanley screwdriver for $200-250. The Veritas costs $400 clams, and only comes with one blade. The Stanley 45 came with 7 beading blades, 10 plow and dado blades, a slitting blade, a tonguing blade and a sash blade. Assuming all those blades were available on a Veritas, that would set you back $380, for a total of $780!!!! I've never used the Veritas, and maybe it is all that and a bag of chips, but the 45 is pretty comfortable to use in my opinion.

    I just don't see it.
    Stanley screwdrivers? Nah. Wiha or Wera are way better. As for Veritas. It depends on which tool. I have quite a few planes myself. All very good planes as to the price slightly cheaper than LN. But in all honesty is it really needed? Maybe. If it is just the plane with normal carbon steel I would say no. Takes too much effort maintaining the edge. But Veritas and LN both have very good blades there.

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