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Thread: Grizzly G 0507 20” bandsaw

  1. #1

    Unhappy Grizzly G 0507 20” bandsaw

    Hello Everyone,
    It’s been sometime since I posted last, although, I have stopped in every once in a while to read some of the posts. I had an interesting experience with my Grizzly G 0507 20” bandsaw almost two weeks ago. Flipped the switch and the TIRE broke. I have never broken a blade much less thrown a tire on this saw. Upon close inspection the TIRE did not actually; brake, shrewd, tear, come loose or ride off the wheel but was crystallized within the rubber – no adherence within the rubber ( 3/16” thick x 1” 3/16” wide with a center bead on the bottom of the tire that tracks in the grove on the steel wheel ). Obviously this defect has been there since I bought the saw and just waited for the right position on the big wheel for me to throw the switch, well it finally happened and this is a saw I do not use often but is available when I need it. I called Grizzly and explained what had happened and they told me up front its out of warranty and I explained this was NOT a normal wear and tear issue but a crystallized defect from day one, so they asked me for pics and I sent them nine. Very next day they called me, they still were NOT going to cover it. I’ll include as many pics as I can on this site, its been a while.



    This reminds me of a lawn mower manufacture a few years back, when they had trouble with their zero-turn transmissions ( wheel motors ). I was, at that time and still am a member of that site and there were quit a few mowers with bad transmissions ( wheel motors ), it was so bad there was talk of a CLASS ACTION SUIT against this particular manufacture. So what the manufacture did, after a period of time they increased the warranty time from TWO to FIVE years. In doing so, they knew that most of their problems started after 500 hours or there about ( beyond the five year period) and most people would have their mowers most likely longer than that. Of course by extending the warranty, most people thought they had fixed the problem. And there are still a number of these mowers around today – ticking time bombs with a big bill ahead of them. This is what you call smart business practice.



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    Last edited by Boyd Gathwright; 04-26-2017 at 3:00 PM.
    Every man’s work is always a portrait of himself.

  2. #2
    Sorry about your tire Boyd.
    Are you going to continue this battle or spring for a new tire ?
    I am researching about glues for my 24" bandsaw at the moment.
    The best stuff seems like its the 3m 1300 rubber and gasket adhesive according to knowledgeable folks...Van Huskey amongst others.

    I dont know if Grizzly has spares... or if Carter has tires with a rib underneath.
    I do know of a UK main supplier which has tires for a SP500 Centauro bandsaw ..this has a rib on the underside of the tire.
    I am currently waiting on some insight on the condition of the tire I received, as their is some flaws underneath the tire where it was molded.

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...look-OK-to-you

    I have been trying to figure out how much glue is needed for one tire ...and what stuff is most suitable to fill the voids.

    The only information on gluing a large bandsaw tire, is a post from Jack Forsberg using the 3m stuff he regards highly also...
    Looking at it now, its actually a different number of 3M stuff
    images.jpg
    He mentions this on a thread from another forum titled...
    Spindle sander drums Roll your own.
    Jack mentioned he had this tube left over from his Bursgreen BZB Band saw rebuild.
    I have been trying to figure if it was both tires he glued on with this, and what size of saw it was, with no luck however.
    Will be watching this thread with much interest.
    Can take measurements of the tire if you like.
    Good luck
    Tom


  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Alberta
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    2,162
    I would just buy new tires and move on to more productive things like woodworking. Tires are wear items and as such it will be real hard to prove that you did not nick or gouge,etc.

  4. #4
    Agreed...I like buying OWWM, which comes with much higher repair risks...

  5. #5
    You might have better luck, if you sent a pic like the second last one... but from the other side as to show no obvious signs of a snagging blade.
    I might even go as far as posting a few piccys of the entire length of the tire, maybe penciling in sections of it.
    What's your opinion of the condition other tire ?

    Here is some more photos of the tire I got recently in the UK ...Its for a 24" Centauro saw, So I can't say for sure that a 20" saw would have the same measurements....Maybe Erik Loza would be able to tell you this, I haven't seen him here in a while though.
    Obviously there is going to be variants measuring rubber with a calipers, these numbers is what I came up with ....
    Of all the measurements I took, the height of the rib had the most variants.
    Tom
    Is this enough glue for 1 tire.jpgWill the epoxy fill these flaws.jpg

  6. #6

    Smile

    Hello Tom,


    Having a running gun battle with the manufactures (Grizzly) days are over. It was my intent to make other woodworkers aware of not only what I have experienced but to have an understanding of how such a condition could happen. I have never in my life time had this condition ever and thought that perhaps someone else may have experienced something similar. My speculation is something had to be; too hot or too cold or perhaps the wrong batch mixture or not being mixed properly before it was poured into the mold causing this crystallization to occur – I don’t know how they go about making these tires.
    I am not to excited about replacing this tire with another RUBBER tire and am seriously considering a urethane tire. I have a set on an old cast iron Montgomery Wards 12” bandsaw and works very well without any glue but a real struggle getting them on the wheels (see pics). As far as glues go, If you want, you could call HINKEL (locktite products) and talk to their Tech dept. they will tell you most likely what glue for your application is available from them. Matter of fact they might even send you a sample to try - just a suggestion.


    Boyd
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    Last edited by Boyd Gathwright; 04-29-2017 at 12:38 PM.
    Every man’s work is always a portrait of himself.

  7. #7
    The 3M stuff is reputed to be the preferred stuff by some very knowledgeable folks on here ...
    I just am a bit skint at the moment, and some of those dudes must be on holidays and banned from the computer by the missus, methinks
    I don't know if the urethane tires have the rib on them, I seem to recall that some folks wished the opted for rubber afterwards.
    Tom

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    9,645
    Looks like it broke where the two ends were glued or molded together. I'd buy a new rubber tire from Grizzly.

    John

  9. #9
    I'm confused as to why grizzly should be extending the warranty on any part of their saw past the listed date at time of purchase for any reason. Even if it could be proven that the tire was defective from day one, which it doesn't seem to be possible to do, the entire point of a warranty period is to set a limit to the amount of time your machines are supposed to run trouble free. It sounds like your machine did just that and then some. Not really sure where the complaint is.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Pinehurst, Texas
    Posts
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    Looks like it broke where the two ends were glued or molded together. I'd buy a new rubber tire from Grizzly.

    John
    Yes, that's what came to my mind as well - that the tire broke where it was glued together, since one end appears to be at a perfect ninety degree angle to the length. However, I'm not so sure I'd buy a new one before I tried gluing it back together. No need to worry about the inch or so of lost length either, as rubber or neoprene bandsaw tires are usually made 10 to 20 percent shorter than the circumference of the wheel they go on. If it's rubber or neoprene, it can be butt glued with cyanoacrylate adhesive - Super Glue or "Crazy Glue" or some similar brand. I prefer Quicktite by Loctite Corp. myself.

    The problem with trying to glue rubber or neoprene is that most adhesives for the job are designed to stick it to something other than itself. Such joints don't usually have to stretch. However, if you want to glue rubber to itself - as in the case of a bandsaw tire, you want an adhesive that will allow the glued surfaces to stretch along with the rest of the material without breaking - which is why you want to use a butt joint instead of a lap or scarf joint in this case. In industry it is done by vulcanizing, but that is beyond the capabilities of most of us. The other way is to use an adhesive that is strong enough that a minimal amount of surface area is needed in the joint for sufficient strength. Cyanoacrylate adhesive fills the bill nicely and is also sometimes used in industry.

    I once made up tires for an antique 36 inch bandsaw from neoprene packing and gasket material I purchased in a 2 inch width for the job. They are still holding together more than 20 years later. I cut a butt joint on the ends with a sharp knife and then trued the glue surfaces with a stationary disk sander using fine grit paper. I put several drops of adhesive on one end and quickly spread it with the plastic nozzle of the glue container (anything else would probably have stuck immediately.) Then I carefully pressed the two ends together. You get only one chance to get them in the right position, of course, else you have to start all over.

    After a few hours you'll be hard pressed to pull the joint apart with your hands; after two days or more of curing you won't be able to pull it apart with your bare hands at all - if you did a good job. One word of caution - don't let the joint come into contact with any solvent that cuts lacquer - such as acetone, xylene, toluene, methyl-ethyl ketone or the like - because such substances will dissolve the cyanoacrylate adhesive; they might also eat the tire itself. Alcohol, mineral spirits or naptha don't seem to hurt anything.

    In any event you have little to lose by trying to repair the tire.

    For what it's worth I use Household Goop to glue tires to bandsaw wheels. Pure silicone caulk (without the latex in it) might work too.

    Jim

  11. #11
    Thank you Jim. I think I'll try this. How did you hold the tire to the wheel until it cured?

    Boyd
    Every man’s work is always a portrait of himself.

  12. #12
    I presume the best thing would be to get some bicycle tube and cut it into strips ?
    You must keep us updated on the outcome on this Boyd.
    Thinking of cutting into my lower tire as we speak, as I'm at the stage where I need to be using my machine.
    I just wish I could get more clarification whether the errors in my tire will be OK and whether I have enough glue for the job.
    Tom

  13. #13
    Hello Jim,


    Attempted to use your fix and here are the results ( see pics). Got the tire tight on the wheel and inserted the two broken pieces and to my surprise there was still a considerable gap. At first I thought there had been another piece that I missed because the gap was so large (about an inch) but not so. Both sides of the pieces matched up with the tire perfectly on both sides. Which leads me to to think that this tire was put on SO TIGHT that its weakest link finally gave way at the right position on the wheel when I threw the switch. I look forward to any further suggestions.

    Boyd
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    Last edited by Boyd Gathwright; 04-29-2017 at 7:17 PM.
    Every man’s work is always a portrait of himself.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Somewhere in the Land of Lincoln
    Posts
    2,545
    I hope you get the saw back up and running soon. If you do some research you will learn that bandsaw tires are very tight when new. In fact people use hot water and other tricks to get them on. As for Grizzly owing you a new tire years after you purchased it is quite a stretch. I don't know how long you have had the saw but it's no longer a current model so I am guessing for at least 5 years. As others have said they are a wear item. Rubber deteriorates even without being used. Look into automobile tires going bad on the rack. It sucks but that's why there are after market bandsaw tire suppliers. Good luck.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Pinehurst, Texas
    Posts
    50
    Hello, Boyd,

    I'm sorry, but I believe you may have misunderstood me. The tire should be glued back together and allowed to cure before re-installation onto the wheel. The fact that the tire is a bit shorter than the circumference of the wheel rim should not be a problem, for as I wrote before, rubber bandsaw tires are intended to be a bit shorter - as much as 10 to 20 percent.

    I can only presume your tire is rubber or neoprene rather than urethane - it certainly looks like rubber. If you can stretch the material to some degree with your hands, as if it were a giant rubber band, then it is most likely rubber. If it won't stretch much at all, then it is likely a urethane, a vinyl, or some other kind of plastic. I don't know if the cyanoacrylate would adhere to those.

    If you decide to try again, be sure to let the joint cure for a day or two before attempting to stretch it on to the wheel.

    Good luck.

    Jim

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