Seal with varnish instead of shellac: Any reason this won't work?

[Greg Lewis]

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this:

I'm going to finish a Mission style tall case clock made of quarter sawn white oak. A Mission replica finish I've used before is:

1. dye (TransTint)
2. seal with shellac
3. contrasting color of gel stain to fill pores
4. wiping varnish

The purpose of the seal coat is to keep the color of the gel stain from absorbing into the medullary rays and killing the base tone of the TransTint dye.

But in this case, the piece is so large that I'm nervous about the working time of the shellac. Also, having limited experience with this, I do not want to spray something this size and risk a failure — all applications will be by hand. I don't need a seal coat to dry right away; I'm a patient person and am willing to wait for it to dry.

The question is:

Is there any reason I should not substitute wiping varnish for the shellac as a sealer? The varnish would give me more working time to apply.


I've tried a test piece and it looks OK, but there might be something here that I don't know about or haven't thought of.

Thanks for your input!

[Prashun Patel]

FIrst, I wouldn't recommend wipe-on sealing with shellac over Transtint. It can be done, but it's a tricky proposition, as you risk moving the dye around. If you spray on the shellac you don't risk lifting the dye. I wouldn't be afraid of spraying the first couple coats of shellac. They absorb into the surface; as long as you do it lightly, and allow some dry time between the two or three light coats, you won't mess it up.

[Greg Lewis]

Thanks, Prashun.

If it matters, I'm using 50/50 alcohol and lacquer thinner as the carrier for the dye.

[Scott Holmes]

Shellac will still move the dye around if it's not spayed...

Why 50/50 with lacquer thinner?

The mineral spirits in the wipe-on varnish may move a bit of the dye around if you wipe too aggressively.

[keith wootton]

wipe on sealer or varinsh will work. i use general seal a cell sealer. it is what jeff jewitt recomends. a tiny bit of the transtint will lift, but it will be even and unnoticed.

what will lift dye and stain and make light uneven areas is sanding, even with 320. so i omit it after dye and stain.

for oak i sand to 180 only, sanding too fine seems to limit dye sticking and saturating. wet it down to raise grain, resand lightly w/ 180, then dye. no sanding after dye, just wipe with my bare hands, which are always rough and chapped.

then seal.

then stain with gel stain.

no sanding, then wipe on poly (i use minwax. cheap, and highly rated by fww). then i rewipe straight with grain lightly, the wipe on poly with my bare hands after it sets on the wood for a short while. this knocks any imperfections in the surface down into the pores and you are left with a very smooth more satin finish. a couple three coats that way and done.

keith

[Greg Lewis]

Thanks, Scott and Keith. Sorry for the delay in responding; I've been busy with family.

Scott: The reason for the 50/50 alcohol/lacquer thinner is to have a non-grain raising dye. It's listed in the info sheet for TransTint as an option. I've used this before with success.

[Allan Speers]

I've never tried varnish. Being thicker than shellac, wouldn't it obscure some of the grain?

[Greg Lewis]

I've never tried varnish. Being thicker than shellac, wouldn't it obscure some of the grain?

Allan:
I've tested with the wipe-on varnish, which is nothing more than two parts varnish and three parts thinner, more or less. No problems with clogging the pores which I then fill with the gel stain. I posted the question because my test is only on a couple of small pieces and I don't want to discover somewhere down the road a problem I didn't think about. The result doesn't have quite the depth that something I made years ago does, but I'm not sure if that's because of the finishing schedule or differences in the wood.

[Steve Schoene]

Allan:
I've tested with the wipe-on varnish, which is nothing more than two parts varnish and three parts thinner, more or less. No problems with clogging the pores which I then fill with the gel stain. I posted the question because my test is only on a couple of small pieces and I don't want to discover somewhere down the road a problem I didn't think about. The result doesn't have quite the depth that something I made years ago does, but I'm not sure if that's because of the finishing schedule or differences in the wood.

The easiest safest way is to spray with shellac. No equipment needed since the Aerosol from Zinnser will work fine as it is dewaxed and is available widely.

By the way it doesn't matter which solvent you use to mix TransTint, it remains soluble in any of its solvents. That's a flaw when using as a dye--an advantage when using in a toner.