This is a scam, right?

[Kenneth Walton]

So I was drooling yet again over the powermatic 719t mortiser, and I noticed one of the sellers on amazon claimed to have a new one for sale for $749 including shipping. You couldn't add it to your cart, it just gave an email address to contact for info. I did, and this is what I got:

"Hello,

First of all let me apologize for the late answer.
I will try to explain in this email all terms and condition
The Powermatic 1791264K Model 719T Tilt Table Mortiser with Stand is new, US model (not grey market or refurbished, brand new, never used). The product is in new condition, comes with 24 months international warranty, receipt, all manufacturer supplied accessories.
The total price is $749,99 ( because i have some promotional offer for Cyber Monday and Holidays ) including all shipping taxes if you are in US and for international shipping you have to pay extra 5,99 $ .
If you want to buy, send me your phone number, full name, shipping address and i will contact Amazon asap to process your order. Dispatch is by normal UPS Services, which takes 2-5 days depending on where in the US you are.
My return policy is full money back in 21 days.


For more information don't hesitate to contact me

Many Thanks,"

Am I right in assuming this is a scam? That listing is now gone from Amazon. Sure tempted me though!

[Matt Day]

All signs point to yes. I wouldn't buy anything from outside the US from a guy with broken English. I'm sure there might be some legitimate sellers but most are out to steal your money.

[Paul Symchych]

And his uncle, the king of Nigeria needs quick cash because his Swiss accounts are frozen.
You'd think these guys would know that "5,99 $" is not the normal way to write that in this country.

[Charles Coolidge]

This Powermatic is not the mortiser you want (waves Jedi hand) on sale for $995

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[Myk Rian]

All signs point to yes. I wouldn't buy anything from outside the US from a guy with broken English.

I don't see where the seller isn't in the U.S., and the English isn't broken.
I would contact Amazon before pursuing it any further. See if they have any info on if it's a legit offer.

[Kenneth Walton]

OK, definitely a scam. I emailed him again and this is what he said:

"This deal will go through Amazon A to Z Guarantee Program
My listing is closed on website but the product is still in stock for sale.
To set up our transaction I need the follow info:
Full Name:
Address:
City:
Zip:
Country:
Product:
Quantity:
Price:
I will immediately send the required data, Amazon will contact you to order, details about payment and shipping. in maximum 5 days you will receive product.
Waiting your reply ASAP!"

Where is the shop fox mortiser for only a grand? I've only seen it for 12xx. How does it compare to the powermatic? Anyone try the baileigh mortiser?

[Dan Hintz]

Amazon will contact you to order, details about payment and shipping

No... Amazon will not contact you (more than likely, someone claiming to be from Amazon will contact you). And how does the guy expect you to make payment? If you are not paying through the Amazon website, you cannot get the Amazon Guarantee.

[Matt Day]

I don't see where the seller isn't in the U.S., and the English isn't broken.
I would contact Amazon before pursuing it any further. See if they have any info on if it's a legit offer.

Okay, English is not his first language. Is that a better way of saying it?
And "including all shipping taxes if you are in US and for international shipping you have to pay extra 5,99 $ ." Implies that at least this likely fictional machine is not in the US.

[Stephen Cherry]

Run, Forrest, Run.

[Charles Coolidge]

Dude my apologies, Grizzly had the Shop Fox mortiser listed for $995 for the last month or so, I just purchased one. I checked their web site just now and its no longer listed sorry.

I have a feeling they are in the process of closing out the older Shop Fox mortiser and upgrading it to the current Grizzly mortiser design. The reason I say this is because while the website page noted the mortiser as "New" in red, it was also listed on the Christmas close out flier as a close out. It gets more interesting...the actual Shop Fox mortiser they shipped me is not the older design shown in the picture on the website, its virtually identical to the current heavy duty Grizzly mortiser that cost $500 more. $995 vs $1,495 that's a big difference when the two machines are virtually identical. In fact the Shop Fox they shipped me has one key improvement over the Grizzly, plus the usual Shop Fox upgrades in terms of chrome vs black oxide etc. I have a feeling they may have left the Shop Fox listing on the web site too long and were shipping the newer machines at the older machine close out prices. That OR Grizzly just said forget having two of these and dumped the Shop Fox machines to get rid of them. I guess we'll see shortly if they re-list the Shop Fox later.

All that said...having just spent hours going over all three of these machines in fine detail if I had to choose between just the Grizzly and the Powermatic I think its a coin toss. I feel the Grizzly has a design flaw, they have fixed this in the Shop Fox machine they shipped me. They may have fixed it in the Grizzly by now and the picture and manual are out of date, I'd call them to confirm before I purchased the Grizzly. I felt the Powermatic also had a design flaw, I don't like how the table is supported when tilted, seems not solid enough to me given the leverage. And while I was initially infatuated with the Powermatic then I thought...tilted table and long board that's problematic. The Grizzly flaw by the way was the single bolt they used to secure the tilting column, there is a single bolt front and rear, I felt there should be at least 2 bolts spread apart a ways. Here's some pics...

Here is the Shop Fox they had advertised on their website, note the short base, the column attaches to the rear via a central hub and 2 bolts left and right, this design has been around for a long time for tilting columns.

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Here is the Grizzly at $500 more than the Shop Fox, note the longer full base and completely different column attachment, it rests on those L shaped brackets. Note how its locked in place only by the single bolt front & rear labeled P in the picture.

g0448a.jpg

And here's the Shop Fox mortiser they shipped me, its identical to the Grizzly now but note how they have added a 2nd bolt front and rear e.g. 4 bolts total to lock the column in place. If they have added this 2nd bolt to the current Grizzly machines shipping then I'd say its a good machine. Of course the Powermatic is $250 less than the Grizzly.

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Some final notes on the Shop Fox, I have it bolted to a Shop Fox mobile base and its completely stable even with the column tilted fully to one side. The base is very nice. The machine did have some minor quality issues, the factory didn't lock the column, it was tilted over to one side and resting on a long skinny locking handle for the big arm which bent it. Grizzly is replacing it. The stop bolt was also bent, I replaced with a grade 8 bolt at my cost. The threaded rod for the depth stops was not tightened down, I removed the rear column cover and tightened. Finally there was a cosmetic flaw on the fence, you can see it in the pics I posted. Grizzly offered to replace the fence, I'm still wondering whether its even worth my time to box up the old to ship back its purely cosmetic.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Look at the seller's feedback rating. Call Amazon customer service if you need clarification on how to make a safe buy from the seller.

[C Scott McDonald]

If its to good to be true..........

[Chris Parks]

As soon as someone starts assuring me that it is a good deal I walk away. As soon as someone wants to get clever with payment outside the normal systems and how they operate I definitely walk away. Just reading it screams scam to me as all these type of emails have a pattern of assurance and the email is not written in a colloquial manner.

[Myk Rian]

Okay, English is not his first language. Is that a better way of saying it?

Well, you have to admit his English is a lot better than you see on forums, from people born and raised.
Everything is spelled right, and the grammar is correct. He's not even asking for method of payment yet.
I would still contact Amazon for their statement.