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Thread: My review of buying a Triumph laser.

  1. #1

    My review of buying a Triumph laser.

    I decided that I wanted a laser cutter/engraver. There are many sizes available, and I settled on a 900x600mm with 100 watts of power. A US made one of that size and power would be about $42,000. My costs, including customs tax, shipping, final residential delivery, and wire transfer fees came to about $5850. I then paid a friend about another $300 in wiring, ducting, electrical work, etc.


    There is a middle way to go - where you buy from a US company who imports and re-badges Chinese lasers. This is for people who don't feel comfortable working with other countries directly and are seeking (but maybe or maybe not actually getting) more support. Going that way would maybe be in the $12,000-$15,000 range.


    I had to pick a brand, and there are many. I went with Triumph.


    Timeline:


    7/11/13 - First contact. Decided on features.


    7/30/13 - Settled on exact features, got invoice.


    7/30/13 - Send payment by wire (I sent the full amount up front. Some people send partial until it ships).


    8/3/13 - They shipped machine.


    9/30/13 - It arrived at my house via truck.




    The laser company arranged the delivery - I didn't have to do much. They asked me to sign a customs broker form giving power of attorney to represent me. I did. The payment to the laser company handled everything except for about $300 in custom's tax.


    Some things to consider:


    Get a real chiller. Don't listen to the idea of using a 5 gallon pail of water. The model 3000 is just water, radiator, and fan. The model 5000 adds real refrigerant-based cooling. The model 5200 doubles that capacity again. I have the 5200, and I have never seen my water temp go up by more than a few degrees C. Even the 3000 would be vastly better than a bucket of water as far as having a sealed system that does not need much cleaning.


    I suggest to make sure that every detail of what you want is on the invoice before you place the order to prevent any misunderstanding.


    Software -


    Mine came with software called PHcad. I like it a lot. You can use it directly, or it can work with Autocad, Corel Draw, or Adobe Illustrator. This software is the same as Thunder Laser's LaserGrav software.


    Support -


    My first support email was that the laser was not having its power set correctly. They responded two days later, and apologized for it being a Chinese holiday and for their slow response time. They correctly fixed the problem by showing me that I didn't set one needed parameter.


    My second support issue was that the software crashed when loading files. They said that the version I had only worked on XP, and that for Windows-7, I needed the newer version. They sent me a download link, and the newer software fixed that.


    I am happy with support so far.


    About laser tubes:


    You can get a generic tube, or a premium brand. I got the premium RECI. I highly suggest that you specify the tube that you want by model number, and not by wattage. This is because some people speak in terms of average max wattage, and others talk about peak wattage. My tube is 100 typical and 130 peak, but it is better to call it a "RECI Z4." Note that the Z is newer than the W, so ask for it by name.


    About power:


    The laser is 220 volt. They will sell you a 110 volt conversion, but I opted for 220. I asked for the chiller to come as 110 volt, and it did. The blower and compressor came as 220, and I needed to wire up some outlets. I have the laser always getting power, as it has its own switch, and the blower and compressor are on a double-pole light switch that I mounted in a box on the bottom of the laser unit.


    So far I love it and aside from getting the old version of the software at first, I have had no problems. It came with the laser tube already installed, and it was correctly aligned.






    Marking ceramic floor tile:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUQyvLk9G7I






    It is said that C02 lasers cannot mark steel unless you buy special marking ink that is very expensive. I have had no trouble marking steel, though it is not as good as a Fiber Laser - so don't buy a C02 primarily to mark steel. It cannot cut metal.





    My invoice - I had about $300 in customs tax charges on top of this:


    They included a nice gift:





    Tube is giant:





    I paid $100 extra for "residential delivery" (no loading dock). The delivery company accidentally picked a truck with a small lift-gate. Had to uncrate it on the truck.





    Z4 tube (latest):





    Chiller 5200 (would be fun to use this to water-cool a PC):





    Big work area, without being giant. Unit is about 600 lbs but has wheels:





    Made custom Milk Bones for my dog to practice the "matrix" feature (marking multiple objects with the same thing:





    Yes, it can mark tool steel:





    I paid a friend $50 an hour to redo my hook up work. It took him several hours, and $150 in parts. So that was like $300 more. We put a 4" dryer vent in the wall (6 inch is better):





    Inlayed wood sign:





    Box:





    Engrave the back of a mirror:





    Software:


    Last edited by Keith Outten; 10-08-2013 at 7:14 PM.
    Triumph TR-9060 with 5200 Chiller and 100 watt Z4 RECI.

  2. #2
    You look like you have a nice machine. I don't quite understand how your CO2 laser is marking steel so well. I used to run a 100W machine and could use barely (and I mean BARELY) make a mark at all, even with full power and very slow speed and multiple passes. I hope someone chimes in about this.

    Good luck.

    Jeff in northern Wisconsin
    SawmillCreek.org
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    45W Epilog Helix
    Corel X4, Photoshop CS3
    Sherline 4400 lathe
    JET 1221 Lathe
    JET 1014 Lathe
    Craftman 36" VS lathe

  3. #3
    You can mark stainless with a machine as low as 30 watts. The problem is that it is hard to regulate and you may end up burning or distorting the steel.
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300, 80 watt
    Gravograph IS400
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Dye Sublimation
    CorelDraw X5, X7

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Belany View Post
    You look like you have a nice machine. I don't quite understand how your CO2 laser is marking steel so well. I used to run a 100W machine and could use barely (and I mean BARELY) make a mark at all, even with full power and very slow speed and multiple passes. I hope someone chimes in about this.

    Good luck.

    Jeff in northern Wisconsin
    High carbon steel... carbon is what gives you the mark, so 100W is reasonable at slow speeds to give you a decent mark, assuming your carbon content is high enough. Back in the days of 30-60W systems being common, marking steel directly was mostly a no-go situation... you could do it with a 60W, but you had to go very slow and use a 1.5" or the high power density lenses. Now that stronger tubes are becoming cheaper and more readily available, that limitation is slowly disappearing.
    Hi-Tec Designs, LLC -- Owner (and self-proclaimed LED guru )

    Trotec 80W Speedy 300 laser w/everything
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    Jet JWBS-18QT-3 18", 3HP bandsaw
    Robust Beauty 25"x52" wood lathe w/everything
    Jet BD-920W 9"x20" metal lathe
    Delta 18-900L 18" drill press

    Flame Polisher (ooooh, FIRE!)
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  5. #5
    That first mark was at 5mm/sec and at least 90% power. But I have dark (but less deep) results at 15-50 mm/sec.

    When my 30 milliamp meter comes, I will ensure that I stay at or below 26 ma and decide on what my max power can be.

    Is there a way to know how many hours I am putting on the tube? Does the controller track that? Is there an hour meter I can buy that will only increment when the tube is on?
    Triumph TR-9060 with 5200 Chiller and 100 watt Z4 RECI.

  6. #6
    I had a meter made by Tweakie that reads the RF signature that comes with a DC tube and only increments when the tube is actually powered. It uses a sensor on the clipped to the tube body

    Working steel with standard mirrors and lens's will likely end in a busted lens and/or a damaged tube. The lens's and mirrors aren't rated for anti reflective backscatter so reflected beams can travel back up the optical train and there is no AR coating on RECI output couplers.

    timer.jpg

    cheers

    Dave
    You did what !

  7. #7
    FWIW--I can mark steel quite nicely with my 45 watt Trotec and the standard 2" lens. It is too slow to be useful though.
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300, 80 watt
    Gravograph IS400
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Dye Sublimation
    CorelDraw X5, X7

  8. #8
    I know copper acts like a mirror. But steel should be ok.
    Triumph TR-9060 with 5200 Chiller and 100 watt Z4 RECI.

  9. #9
    I would like that meter. Not sure how to reach him.
    Triumph TR-9060 with 5200 Chiller and 100 watt Z4 RECI.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Always good to see a buy go good and happy burning.
    GARY ROBERTS
    ShopBot Desk Top
    Full Spectrum 60 Watt Pro

  11. #11
    since I'm in the market for a bigger machine, this is pretty interesting. I'm curious as to machine brands you passed on--

    I've been running my old Optima 25 watter for around 14 years, and my LS900 40 watt for over 10 years, and I've done little more than just USE the things. I've never heard of measuring tube milliamps until reading posts from you guys, and I'm also curious why water cooling a laser wouldn't be sufficient? My 40 watt runs all day every day and it's air cooled, and the cooling air exiting the side of the machine never even gets warm.

    Robert, did you get samples from the machines you checked out before deciding on the Triumph?
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Silvers View Post
    I know copper acts like a mirror. But steel should be ok.
    Anything that does not absorb, reflects, at 10,600nm steel is highly reflective until you reach a few hundred watts or introduce oxygen. Polarisation becomes a problem unless you have differing waves of P polarised and S polarised beams to prevent backscatter.
    I've seen a final lens and the tube on a 150 watt RECI die due to backscatter when the final lens is of the incorrect type with no phase shifting. While a DC tube of 100 watts with a good lens will mark steel (and cut steel at higher powers) it's the optical train properties that matter not raw power.

    I would like that meter. Not sure how to reach him.
    Just google "Tweakie CNC" the guy is a legend and has probably forgotten more about advanced electronics than most people I know combined will ever know. When he speaks I listen

    My 40 watt runs all day every day and it's air cooled
    RF tubes generate far less heat at a given rating, DC tubes rely on effectively a big high voltage arc hence get very hot.

    cheers

    Dave
    You did what !

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Williams View Post
    since I'm in the market for a bigger machine, this is pretty interesting. I'm curious as to machine brands you passed on--

    I've been running my old Optima 25 watter for around 14 years, and my LS900 40 watt for over 10 years, and I've done little more than just USE the things. I've never heard of measuring tube milliamps until reading posts from you guys, and I'm also curious why water cooling a laser wouldn't be sufficient? My 40 watt runs all day every day and it's air cooled, and the cooling air exiting the side of the machine never even gets warm.

    Robert, did you get samples from the machines you checked out before deciding on the Triumph?
    The tube warranty requires 26 milliamps or less. I want to make sure the power supply was set up properly.

    An open bucket can cool ok (until it doesn't), but is not thermostatically controlled so the temp changes over time, and is easy to contaminate, and has to be changed more often.

    I didn't get samples.
    Triumph TR-9060 with 5200 Chiller and 100 watt Z4 RECI.

  14. #14
    On a fatbody tube you want to keep it under 23 degrees to get the best life, 18 to 22 gives great life on the fatbodies (10k hrs+)

    cheers

    Dave
    You did what !

  15. #15
    5.1mm acrylic cuts at 10mm/sec at 98% power. Any less energy is unreliable. I saw some charts online that said I should be doing 20mm/sec at 90% power. I assume my cutting speed is within the range of normal?
    Triumph TR-9060 with 5200 Chiller and 100 watt Z4 RECI.

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