LV Made in China?

[Jack Camillo]

What is the meaning of this? I am a huge fan and big customer of Lee Valley/Veritas, but have to say I was "fooled" and am a little sick at the moment. I don't appreciate receiving a forstner bit marked "made in China." I guess I should have read between the lines, but sorry, I have never been suspicious of LV and therefore skimmed right over "Made exactly to our specifications, these bits took over a year to develop and refine" without mention of the manufacting location or material origin. I don't appreciate smooth marketing like that and would not have expected it from my all-time favorite tool and hardware retailer. They could have at least said on the website "imported."
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,63566&p=63566

[John Keeton]

Jack, it is probably more appropriate to let Rob Lee respond here, but let me say that it is my impression that LV, like most other similar companies, imports several items.

Over the years I have purchased many such items and have been pleased with them. It is difficult in today's market to avoid that situation.

I do agree that denoting them imported would be helpful. But sadly, imports are such an integral part of our economy it is almost an assumption. Not that it makes me feel good either, but I am not sure I would feel the same level of betrayal as you. But, everyone has different expectations.

The title to your post could be somewhat misleading. When I saw it, I thought the reference was to their planes. Hopefully, I was alone in that assumption.

[Jack Camillo]

My disgust with "made in china" is not a preconceived bias. Over the years I've cursed a very many crappy tools and broken items made in china, and even hurt myself with them, from screws to costly but poorly made machines. I know all about the realities of our economy, which is why I don't shop for tools at HD or Ls. But that's not what this post is really about. I like to know what I'm buying before I buy it.

[John Coloccia]

I have to say that I think Lee Valley is particularly good about labeling their products as "Made In Canada" or "Made In Japan", for example, and I just assumed everything else came from China. Their catalog has cute little maple leafs on everything that's made in Canada.

I like buying domestically, or at least from Europe, as much as I can too, but it's getting harder and harder. Does anyone in the US even still make forstner bits?

[John Shuk]

I think that boycotting Made in China stuff may be difficult to say the least. Made in China does not translate to things being made poorly. Probably the best strategy is to find trust in the people you purchase from. Based on my experience and the testimonials I've read here I do trust Lee Valley. I think if these didn't meet the quality agreed upon by LV and the factory that LV would be rejecting the product.
I hope my trust isn't misplaced. I suspect it isn't.

[John Shuk]

I think that boycotting Made in China stuff may be difficult to say the least. Made in China does not translate to things being made poorly. Probably the best strategy is to find trust in the people you purchase from. Based on my experience and the testimonials I've read here I do trust Lee Valley. I think if these didn't meet the quality agreed upon by LV and the factory that LV would be rejecting the product.
I hope my trust isn't misplaced. I suspect it isn't.

[Jack Camillo]

Their packaging of the metric HSS Brad Points (which I love) have a sticker "Made in the USA", and though the packaging on the individual imperial bits weren't marked, I imagine the same - so I guess I assumed too much when it came to their boring tools in general; again, with the smooth wording.

[Art Mulder]

Err, did you think that Lee Valley sourced all their products domestically?

I just pulled out their current Woodworking Catalog and I can confirm that they clearly mark all products that are made in Canada (with a red maple leaf) or in the USA (with a blue "USA" symbol).

If you aren't happy, Jack, they have an ironclad satisfaction guarantee. They'll take it back if you don't like it.

[Dave Lehnert]

I think it is common in retail to not point out what may be a negative on a product but LV is good about labeling what IS made in Canada or the USA.
One good thing about LV. They will take it back.

On the flip side I have been surprised at what IS made in the USA at Harbor Freight. Not many but they don't point it out.

[Peter Quinn]

So. How do they work? Did LV do you wrong, or do the bits work?

I think the day is coming when you can expect Chinese manufacturers to be capable of producing goods on par with those produced else where. Probably its already here in isolated cases. I've used plenty of foreign junk, marked Made In "Some country I perceive to have only recently industrialized and whose commitment to precise industrial manufacturing I find dubious". Taiwan, Korea, India, Indonesia, China, Brazil, Mexico, etc. Working with junk is frustrating and best avoided.

There was a time when "Made in Japan" was the moniker of garbage, and now they are world leaders in quality in many fields. Of course Japanese culture and Chinese culture are hardly the same thing, and post WWII Japan undertook a serious and focused effort to get where they are today. The Chinese are now consciously trying to grow into a mature industrial economy and evolve to shed the perception that they are the junk vendors merely to the world. Might take them some time I imagine. Food for thought.

So how much were these bits? Last time I looked at my LV catalogue I saw a pretty clear distinction between their "Made in Germany, Switzerland, Austria or some other serious high tech country with a reputation for quality" bits, and their "These are imports, not bad for what you pay, not junk but not our best either" lines. Pretty much every decent vendor I can think of sells some import lines, because not every user needs or can afford the top flight bits. QUestion is, again, how do they work?

[Jack Camillo]

It is possible to boycott 'made in china' whenever possible (which I insist upon with respect to tools and food), and it's a very worthy cause that takes commitment (and extra money). (And it has nothing to do with the Chinese people if that needs to be said)

[Peter Quinn]

Does anyone in the US even still make forstner bits?

I believe both Morris Wood Tool and Forrest City Tool make their own forstner bits, and Morris also sells some fine bits made in Austria. I haven't used the Forstner's from Morris, but I have used their doweling brad points on my slot mortiser, and they are some of the finest tooling I have ever purchased. Scary sharp and accurate. I have used multi spur boring bits from Forrest City at work, and they were pretty darn good too. Beyond those I am stumped.

[Dennis McGarry]

Made in china is not synonymous with this is junk.

Yes there are allot of items that come out of there as junk, but there are also a lot of items that come out great. Its all up to the Sourcing company.

If a company is diligent in their relationship with the manufacturer and ensures they follow the manufacturing guidelines you will have a good product. Period.

i would have to say that these bits work great and are the same quality you would expect them to be.

NOW when you see the look alike at HF that could be a different story, same product, made on the same line most likely but with inferior cheaper material.

To many people instantly want to say china bad, only us made blah blah, would be great, but then that bit set would cost you 399.99 and i DOUBT they would sell more then 2

Most of the parts in the computer you are using are china and or twain made btw....

[Jack Camillo]

I believe both Morris Wood Tool and Forrest City Tool make their own forstner bits, and Morris also sells some fine bits made in Austria. I haven't used the Forstner's from Morris, but I have used their doweling brad points on my slot mortiser, and they are some of the finest tooling I have ever purchased. Scary sharp and accurate. I have used multi spur boring bits from Forrest City at work, and they were pretty darn good too. Beyond those I am stumped.

Thanks for the tip.
No one here that has been doing anything for any amount of time can deny having experienced crappy chinese-made drill bits. Again, I should not have bought it and would not have if they stated where it was made or even stated where it was not made, or didn't attempt to disguise the fact that they are made in china. There's no mention of "these are imports, etc., etc...."

[Jack Camillo]

And as for "how do they work" - I cannot at this moment bring myself to chuck it in my POS Made in China PM2800 drill press... even though I bought the bit to finish a gift for my wife. Another example of great customer service - just call and they'll send you any part you need, no question. No question because Powermatic knows they are crap and are breaking and falling apart constantly.