Anyone build Joe's CNC kit?

[Troels Bertelsen]

Hello everyone

I joined this forum just to revive this kinda old thread. Hope it's ok..!

Well, the thing is i'm totally new to CNC machineing. I saw a video on youtube two years ago and have been spellbound ever since. Yeah, i know it sounds silly, but thats how i got into this..

So, my former hobby was related to hifi, home theatre gaming and such. Well, i kinda realized over time that as you invest in better and better equipment, you get to spend big money on subtle improvements. So.. i'm done upgrading. Now, i just need to find another hobby, and thought that i would give a CNC machine a go. I want to use it to make parts for speaker building, make some acoustic panels i've designed and that sorta things.

My background.. well, thats the really tricky part. I'm a student graduating this summer as an engineer in thermal process systems. So, no experience using tools, or, limited experience i prefer to say.

So, my budget is around 3-4 grand. Thats how much i saved by being satisfied with my former hobby. You may ask how a student has that kind of money, but payrolls are high here in Denmark and the cost of living is also high. A little CNC to cut in foam with a dremel costs around 15-20 grand.. So i figured i could save some by building my own.

Thats where my question lies. How hard is the mechanical part of building a Joes CNC? - i think i can figure the electronics out.. but i don't know how much goes into building the frame etc.. I would like to buy the plans as well as the MDF and HDFE pre-cut kit.

I would also like to know what gear you would propose to fit into my budget. I don't know which design is the better, or what the pros and cons are with the different systems.. rack n pinion vs belt drive etc. I've pretty much settled for a chinese spindle.. stepper motors, i would like to be able to machine very fast. I see some have really big motors, like NEMA 34's and jog at 1000 ipm and have fast cutting speeds. I see kits on ebay for around 600-800 USD including stepper drivers for 4 axis (NEMA 34 1600 oz-in + DM860 stepper driver) . They should give nice speeds i believe. However, can the construction of Joes cnc take these kinds of motors?

Also, i would like to be able to process a whole sheet of MDF, which in Denmark measures 2440 mm x 1220 mm. It's just over a 4 x 8 layout. Does this make it much more expensive?

I would love to have some suggestions on a complete setup and what i should expect from it. How much work goes into making it and so on. The difficulty of the build..

So, chinese spindle, perhaps rack n pinion, 4 x 8 layout, good cutting speeds. Perhaps a vacuming system to minimize "splatter" of cut material. PS3 controller setup with EMC2.. What do you suggest? I have a delivery address in VA, so i can shop in the US. I Would love any advise as i'm almost at rock bottom and want to climb the latter to a successfull build..

[Troels Bertelsen]

I forgot to mention software.. Currently have Solid Works 2010, MasterCAM X5 and EMC2 live disk ready to go.. we have student licences on campus..

Also, i would need help to determine what cutters "i can't live without" when using a CNC.. i need those as well..

[Ross Moshinsky]

I've attached my 50"x100" CNC Budget. I'd add another 10-15% being outside of the US. It's not a Joe's CNC configuration but using CNCRouterParts components. The price is a bit more because CNCRouterParts is all metal components and the guide rails are more expensive than angle iron. There obviously places you can cut costs. Using a metal frame is significantly more expensive than wood. I budgeted for a ball screw Z-axis. Leadscrew works fine and is cheaper. You mentioned using NEMA 34 motors but if you go to NEMA 23, it drops the price by nearly $1000. You also can also find cheaper sources if you want.

I should note I haven't built this machine yet. I've been planning for a while but I've been a bit unsatisfied with the amount of actual cutting data provided with these types of components. Everyone loves to tell how fast the machine jogs but rarely do you hear about someone actually posting cutting data. I've also been waiting on a few new components that CNCRouterParts just came out with.

[Shane Sura]

I built a Joe's and I am quite happy with it. I went with the 4x4 Rack and pinion with a wood base and hitachi router. Now it certainly will not do an entire MDF sheet but you will be hard pressed with lifting anyway so why not cut to size before machining? The only thing I may recommend before building is if you have the money, and you want to be serious. Invest in a welded base, vrails, and the cast trucks from the beginning. I will eventually upgrade to that set up and I kind of wish I did it from the beginning. Though not doing it did save me a ton of money on something I was not sure I would make a go of.

[Mike Heidrick]

I have built a Joes and have upgraded to everything Shane recommended. Cast CNC carriages and the dual 8020 extrusion X gantry, Vrail, and a welded base. Its perfect.

Have a drill press? Have a way to cut some steel? Some hand taps? You can do it easily. Figure a lot of drilling and tapping, you can buy your carriages (either HDPE or MDF or Harry's cast ones) and the MDF ones are predrilled - just glue up and paint. Harrys parts you will do light clean up of cast parts and drill and tap. I had a few posts on here on my builds if you search for them. I ordered plans on April 19th and was cutting May 30th (it was the 20th or 30th - I have forgot) working evening and weekends. My break down and upgrade was less than a week but I spent two weeks milling the parts.

You are looking at about 10-12 $300 purchases give or take for a basic Joes 4X4 Hybrid rack and pinion with aG540 controller(not including computer or software). Add $500 for V rail, Cast parts are $600 to Harry, a welded base is about the same cost or less than the unistruct base, the extra 8020 extrusion is about $75 more, you save about $70 on bearings, the K2CNC 8" Z for the cast upgrade was $4500 or so but its price is going to $470 - you do save on not buying the bearings, rod, couplers, etc for the Joes standard Z.

Joes build pics - http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...outer%20Build/

Cast upgrade pics - http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ke/Cast%20CNC/

[David Warkentin]

Not so sure I should be looking at this. Might make me spend more money, have the carriages, 8020, bearings, rails, and screw for z and put it on the back burner. Maybe I should finish....

[Troels Bertelsen]

Hello all

Reason for 4 x 8 layout was to be able to do cuts for a high book shelf that is 2170 mm high (~85 3/7 inches).. those i could make a nice profit on..

With the budget xls file submitted, with some modified inputs (no spending on software, chinese spindle and reduced price on stepper motors and drivers) i get around 5k for a 50 x 100.. Not too bad..

[Mike Heidrick]

David, You are almost there. Lets get you up and running too!!

[Mike Heidrick]

Troles - the machine's Y is open ended and you can always index and side if you do not need the large footprint all the time.

[Troels Bertelsen]

Ok, well in that case, it shouldn't be to hard not cut the work model in two and just finish 1 part at a time..

Then, are prices still in the 3000 USD range for a complete setup? - for the upgraded ones? how much are the cutters and what do you use most often?

Finally, what are your current cutting speeds approx?

PS: If i decide to upgrade some of the parts to cast iron, how well documented is the build then? - would i still be able to figure things out from the drawings/ joes cnc plans?

[Brian Breshears]

Do you mean to say cast aluminum? The cast aluminum builds are well documented on the Joe's forum. So too are the original design with the MDF replaced by aluminum plate cut to the same sizes.

Cost is hard to figure because everyone approaches it differently. Some just order parts almost without regard to price (more a convenient supplier kind of thing) and some scrounge and reuse and scrimp and save a lot of money. All depends on which version you build. Some can be very affordable and some can be quite pricey.

Cutting speeds vary with the specific machine build. Some of the aluminum versions have video showing rapids of over 2000ipm. As a demonstration only though, nobody risks those kinds of speeds usually. I got my machine running (CastCNC version) and 30 minutes after first movement I had rapids of 800ipm. Cutting speeds will depend on material, depth of cut, etc.

[Mike Heidrick]

$3000 with no computer or software is doable. My first Hybrid R&P 4X4 build was $3600 but I bought some extras. The Vrail and cast upgrade from that was about $1500 more. I recommend a welded base from the start as well.

I use a lot of V bits - I really like the CMT 60 degree Laser V cutter. I buy them in bulk when I can. Amazon has them for around $26 though.

[Troels Bertelsen]

Thanks for getting back to me on this. I really appreciate it. I am really hooked on the idea so i'll see how i can realize this.. Just got notified that i had a large payment due the coming weeks, so the plan is postponed a little..

I know some buy their stuff at many different suppliers, but i want to know if there is a complete kit anywhere that i can buy? - Joe only offers so much on his home page, and i would like to have some help ordering the parts when that time comes. Perhaps i will hire some help to order everything and check that the material is good enough for the CNC or if i need to refund it. Then have it sent to my address in VA or maybe europe. Would anybody do that kind of favour?

Also, how much is a wielded table? - my dad's a mechanic and have access to a wielding machine. I figure we can make this ourselves without much problems as long as the material is pre-cut.

Well, maybe i should just sign up at Joe's forum and ask my questions there.. they have probably also already been answered there many times..

[Ross Moshinsky]

If you're looking for a kit where you just have to assemble, CNCRouterParts has what you're looking for. It is more expensive than Joe's kit but once you add the cast aluminum parts and real v-rail, both kits should be very similarly priced.

[Mike Heidrick]

Wow that CNCRouterparts machine is nice.

The welded bae is about $250 in steel around here. I paid $500 for mine so 2X materials. YMMV.

I have considered making Joes machines and selling them. I got a Tapmatic 50X tapping head this week to improve my time to market. I would double my material costs though at least.

Troels I can help you through just about anything - and can build you any parts you do not want to build. The base should be local and some parts are just more economical to just have shipped to your place. I offer the Harry CastCNC milling services already. I charge $400 to mill up Harry's cast parts and $300 to mill up the 8 Vrails. Thats labor cost only - you pay for all the materials and shipping both ways (to me and from me). Work left would be to do some work on the agle iron that attaches the unistrut bed to the Y 8020 extrusions and there is the I beam work as well. Plus the controller build and electronics.

Whats a Joes machine worth 100% completed and ready to assemble minus a base? I think you should do Cast and V rail as well day one but thats just me.