BLO and Beal Buffing

I searched the forum with the exact "blo and beal buff" search term and came up with a lot of threads, unsurprising as the subject of Beal Buffing probably has North of 100 threads over the years. What did surprise me is I did not find the answer to my question, so here we are North of 101 Beal threads, I feel kind of bad about that...

I bought the Beal buffing system a while ago but have not yet used it. Just to entertain myself I made two Sapele bowls and finished one with straight BLO and the other with pure Tung oil thinned 50% with mineral spirits (MS) (I thinned it because out of the container the Tung oil was very viscous and I wanted it about the same as the BLO). Both bowls have been sitting around for a week or more curing. Today I pulled the Beal system off the shelf and re-read the instructions. I was a bit flummoxed when I read that recommended finishes are Antique Oil (AO), Danish Oil (DO) and Tung Oil (TO). Boiled Linseed Oil is NOT recommended. Urummff. I know that AO and DO are just BLO+MS+hardener (or varnish or polymerized Something Or Other) and things that call themselves "Tung Oil Finish" are the same BLO+MS+SOO).

So, my question is, have any of you used the Beal system to buff straight out of the can BLO?

I am going to wait a few of more weeks to try it out since I have read TO can take a long time to cure, as in a month or more. Which gives me plenty of time to pick your good peoples brains.

Oh, in case anyone is curious, sitting on a table curing, both unbuffed bowls look and feel the same. The BLO bowl is not noticeably darker than the TO bowl, I thought it would be. Also, both bowls are from the same 12/4 plank, apples vs apples after all.

Thanks!
Bruce

I never use BLO for the yellowing and darkening over time, especially light wood, also I use Polymerized Tung oil that has been heat treated, it cures in about 8 hours, but is not as hard by then as I like it to be for buffing, also just one coat is hardly ever enough,

The Apple wood is a nice close grained wood, but even on them I use 2 coats with at least the 8 hrs in between applying, usually it sits overnight till the next day or longer before the next coat, and I wait a week or more to give the Polymerized Tung Oil the time to harden up a bit more before buffing it.

Attachment 367881

Each bowl received 4 coats of oil, one per day. Both were sanded to 600 grit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruce Schoenleber

I searched the forum with the exact "blo and beal buff" search term and came up with a lot of threads, unsurprising as the subject of Beal Buffing probably has North of 100 threads over the years. What did surprise me is I did not find the answer to my question, so here we are North of 101 Beal threads, I feel kind of bad about that...

I bought the Beal buffing system a while ago but have not yet used it. Just to entertain myself I made two Sapele bowls and finished one with straight BLO and the other with pure Tung oil thinned 50% with mineral spirits (MS) (I thinned it because out of the container the Tung oil was very viscous and I wanted it about the same as the BLO). Both bowls have been sitting around for a week or more curing. Today I pulled the Beal system off the shelf and re-read the instructions. I was a bit flummoxed when I read that recommended finishes are Antique Oil (AO), Danish Oil (DO) and Tung Oil (TO). Boiled Linseed Oil is NOT recommended. Urummff. I know that AO and DO are just BLO+MS+hardener (or varnish or polymerized Something Or Other) and things that call themselves "Tung Oil Finish" are the same BLO+MS+SOO).
So, my question is, have any of you used the Beal system to buff straight out of the can BLO?
I am going to wait a few of more weeks to try it out since I have read TO can take a long time to cure, as in a month or more. Which gives me plenty of time to pick your good peoples brains.
Oh, in case anyone is curious, sitting on a table curing, both unbuffed bowls look and feel the same. The BLO bowl is not noticeably darker than the TO bowl, I thought it would be. Also, both bowls are from the same 12/4 plank, apples vs apples after all.

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Bruce,

I understand BLO is a component in lots of finishes, including "Danish" oil. I personally don't use it directly for turning finishes so I obviously haven't buffed any. Although mixed with beeswax and mineral spirits it does make a pretty good quick finish. Some people also mix it with poly and mineral spirits for a good finish.

I do use gallons of BLO every year but mostly for things like barn doors, wheelbarrow and rake handles, trailer floors. Some woods darken a lot more with BLO, some not so much. Some seem to darken more with time. I wish I could find it by the 5-gal can but no such luck.

That said, the BLO should eventually dry hard and could be buffed. The oil that soaked down into the wood may, in fact, take a long time to dry. One way to tell if it is completely cured is to smell it - if it has a strong smell it needs more time. If you like, after it is dry you can cut it back on the surface with fine sandpaper and apply a coat or two of Danish on top, then buff.

I do like the Watco oil for finishes that I will buff with the Beall wheels. The way I learned years ago and still use:
Apply oil liberally, wait a bit for it to soak in, wipe off then let dry overnight or longer.
Next day, apply sparingly, wipe off after about a minute or so, let dry overnight.
Next day, repeat. I often use 0000 steel wool or fine abrasive pad between coats if I can feel anything on the surface.
If I'm not in a hurry I might repeat this several more times, waiting longer between each.
Finally, buff.

The way I understand it each application builds up a very thin layer of resin on the surface. The more coats, the thicker.

BTW, with the Beall I don't use the white diamond compound on dark woods and I don't use the red tripoli compound on light colored open grain wood where it might get stuck in the pores. VERY light application of the carnauba wax. Actually, a light application of the polishing compounds and a light touch with all wheels is the best, at least for me.

The oil and buff does not give a mirror gloss surface which I don't usually want anyway, but a soft sheen that still lets the grain show.

If you have not used the Beall yet be sure to maintain a good grip on the piece. Smaller pieces, especially, can be jerked out of your hands and bounced off a few things! But don't worry, the distressed look is still popular. :)

I do love the Beall wheels but I don't like the three-wheel mandrel and I didn't like swapping the wheels on the MT2 mandrel. I bought two extra MT2 mandrels so each wheel has its own. This makes it FAR easier to use, IMO.

Here are some things finished with Watco and buffed. The second one is probably the shiniest surface I've had from the oil, very hard lyptus wood, probably a month of coats.

Attachment 367886 Attachment 367887 Attachment 367888 Attachment 367889 Attachment 367890

JKJ

Thank you gentlemen for the replies, quite informative. I fear however that my communication skills are failing me (not to mention my misspelling of Beall) so let me try this again.

The instruction sheet that came with the buffing wheels clearly stated that Antique Oil (Minwax), Danish Oil (Watco) and Tung Oil (Make not specified) are all recommended finishes for buffing with the Beall system. It specifically spelled out Boiled Linseed Oil as *not* suitable with their product. I find this surprising as AO and DO both contain BLO as a primary ingredient along with a thinner and hardener, it was not clear with the Tung oil whether they are referring to a "Tung Oil Finish" which is not Tung oil or pure Tung oil which is what I am using, to compare against BLO.

The question is, why do they (Beall) feel that BLO is not suitable as a finish to be buffed? Presume that the BLO has been properly applied and cured.

Thanks again!
Bruce

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruce Schoenleber

...The question is, why do they (Beall) feel that BLO is not suitable as a finish to be buffed? Presume that the BLO has been properly applied and cured.

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Ah, new question! The only think I see quickly in my reference books that might relate to buffing is that "of all finishes except wax, linseed oil is the least protective." (Understanding Wood Finishing by Bob Flexner)

It goes on to talk about it being soft. I wonder if this softness prevents suitable buffing, perhaps smearing the surface on a microscopic levelinstead of polishing it. Guessing here.

One thing I've read to test finishes: put a drop of the finish to test on a piece of glass and let it dry. Then push your thumbnail into it to see how hard it is. You might compare BLO with the other finishes that Beall recommends and see if there is any difference in hardness. Perhaps the formulation of the "danish" oil finishes causes it to cure harder and will polish better by buffing. Guessing again, of course.

From the Wood Database on oil finishes: http://www.wood-database.com/wood-ar...inishes-works/
Also"They tend to impart a satiny sheen that isn’t too glossy, replicating a “natural” wood look." and "Fails: Anywhere a glossy, high-sheen finish is desired, or any place where wear/durability will be an issue." As mentioned, I like this look. If you want a buffed shine maybe use a different finish.

Another thing to try is ask Beall why.

I highly recommend the book above for a good general education on finishes to take away some of the mystery along with good practical advice. (However, woodturning is not the focus.) Bob Flexner is an acknowledged expert.

BTW, this and other sources point out that oils in general will darken the wood, some woods far more than other. This can be a great plus for some woods, especially those with figure you want to stand out. Definitely not recommended for some woods. I learned the hard way to not apply any kind of oil to cocobolo - I've had beautiful color and figure turn jet black in a relatively short time.

JKJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John K Jordan

It goes on to talk about it being soft. I wonder if this softness prevents suitable buffing, perhaps smearing the surface on a microscopic levelinstead of polishing it. Guessing here.


JKJ

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That may well be the problem in which case a washboarding effect could be the unintended result.

I have read Mr Flexner's book and the chapter on oils at least twice, though it has been a few years. As I recall he had tung (pure) oil and BLO as quite similar, yet with tung oil having better water resistance (though still not much) and BLO more darkening. I don't recall much if any discussion on buffing. As you mention, his book is geared toward general finishing, not the quirkiness of turning.

I too prefer the luster of oil finishes over the high sheen glossy look provided from many coats of WOP, though on some woods the WOP finish can be a head turner. I like both AO and DO products and will mostly stick with them, but my inner ADD just wanted to try out the straight oils. I think I'll take a couple of scraps, prepare one with BLO, the other with tung, three or four coats each over a week or so, let sit a couple of months and then buff.

Thank you for the time and consideration you put into your responses John.
Bruce

Excellent topic.

I'm interested to hear what you learn with your tests, should be of interest to everyone. Perhaps throw in a test with Walnut oil too and even others that people commonly use. Maybe try one with BLO, dry, then top coat with Danish and buff. This could make a nice magazine article! I am wondering if your scraps could be a turned cylinder or one with a series of shallow beads to better represent the compound curves of a turned piece (to see better how the light reflects)

Hey, along with buffing with the Beall, have you ever tried hand polishing? I've done that occasionally, most recently on hard ebony (without any finish at all) using a polish sold for plastics and one sold for metals.

Another surface I really like is an oil finish rubbed down with rottenstone (on a cloth pad dampened with a bit of oil) to get a satin finish. I used that once on a gunstock (following pumice) with excellent results. Pumice and rottenstone with oil will fill pores too. I've rottenstone both with Watco and with Tru-Oil which I understand has a polymerized oil as the base. Tru-Oil is one of my favorites for small turnings but not fast! It can build to a deep gloss also - apparently some guitar makers love it.

BTW, one more thought and I go out to feed the llamas. :) On a Beads of Courage box I recently tried a finish recommended by several people but new to me: Krylon spray acrylic. As with most turnings, I topped it off with Renaissance Wax. What a disaster! I don't know if I did something wrong like not let it dry enough or used too many coats or what, but the solvent in the wax softened the acrylic and made a big mess. I had to remove it, sand, and reapply. The MSDS says Renaissance Wax contains "white spirit" which I understand is a UK name for mineral spirits. Investigating this is another experiment on my list.

JKJ

I fear you over estimate me John. I am a man of many afflictions, ADD, OCD and probably not last and certainly not least ELD (Extreme Lazy Disorder);).

I have used Krylon Acrylic rattle can, can't remember what on exactly, but definitely as a top coat on something I wanted a little shiny that I had dyed and did not want the colors to smear. Did not try to wax afterward. Guess I got lucky with that. On the many threads regarding Beall buffing, I noticed that quite a few folk use Ren. Wax in place of the carnuba; the claim being better non-water spotting and no finger prints. I do like the Renaissance Wax, but have never buffed it out, just spun the piece with a piece of paper towel, seems pretty sturdy.

I have not tried any hand polishing of bare wood, seems like that may lend itself to oily wood types, teak, cocobolo and the likes, I have no experience with any of those. I mostly use FORD wood and the occasional nice cutoff piece from a hardwood supplier (that is where the Sapele came from which started this thing).

Best regards,
Bruce

I've buffed it....works fine as long as it is good and dry.
Only reason I can think that they don't "recommend" it, is that it will never build to a glossy finish because of the lack of poly.

I use the Polymerized Tung Oil (PTO) because it gets harder and smoother than the Tung oil that has not been heat treated, and so the PTO can be buffed much better if a higher gloss is required/wanted.

Waiting to have the PTO harden more does give a better result as I have found to be the case.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruce Schoenleber

I fear you over estimate me John. I am a man of many afflictions, ADD, OCD and probably not last and certainly not least ELD (Extreme Lazy Disorder);).
...On the many threads regarding Beall buffing, I noticed that quite a few folk use Ren. Wax in place of the carnuba; the claim being better non-water spotting and no finger prints. I do like the Renaissance Wax, but have never buffed it out, just spun the piece with a piece of paper towel, seems pretty sturdy.

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I can identify. I was born with ADHHHDD and never grew out of it. With PP (Perpetual Procrastination) and 13 projects always going at once I'm surprised I get anything done. Keeps the kindergartners entertained.

I apply Renaissance Wax with a small cloth then buff it by hand with another cloth. I do know people who use it directly on bare wood as a soft finish.

JKJ

Almost all high quality guitars are finished with SS & lacquer and buffed with auto compounds to the gloss wanted. Easy and durable.