T120 shaper vibration.

[Matthew Formoso]

I recently purchased a used 9hp t120 shaper, it seems to have a quite a bit of vibration. I want to isolate where the problem is coming from.

What is the standard process for isolating the vibration source?

Not sure if it helps but the spindle phase less than .001 runout at the top.

[Michael Schuch]

I would start with a good clean out of the cabinet. Make sure there aren't any clumps of saw dust stuck in the pulleys or else where. After that I would remove the spindle and see if the vibration is still present. If it is still present remove the belts to see if the vibration is coming from the motor. If the vibration goes away check and possibly replace the belts. While the belts are off check the spindle cartridge for any play and check how smooth the spindle cartridge bearings are. Also inspect the pulleys on the motor and spindle cartridge for any damage or abnormalities. Are the pulleys tight without any play in them... maybe a pulley some how loosened up over time.

If the shaper is in good shape it could just be the belts have taken a set from lack of use.

A very high frequency vibration would point to the spindle/spindle cartridge/spindle bearings. A low frequency vibration would point to to the low speed rotating mass... i.e. the motor/pulleys/belts.

[STUART Robertson]

Is this happening while it is untooled?
Is it a manually adjusted speed system ie. you have to shift the drive belt from pulley to pulley?
Bearings,dry bearings,bent shaft(fairly unlikely but possible) loose pulley,worn belt,loose belt,overtight belt,shaft adjustment not tightened...?
Is the run out the same regardless of extension and position on the shaft.
I had one many years ago that had vibration at it's highest setting,that was down to QC in manufacture.I avoided that setting and eventually replaced it.

[Jared Sankovich]

Run it with the belt off. If it still vibrates it's the motor. If not it's the spindle bearings.

[Richard Coers]

Run it with the belt off. If it still vibrates it's the motor. If not it's the spindle bearings.

You can't discount the belt or pulleys as a possibility.

[STUART Robertson]

Out of curiosity I measured the runout on both my shapers.They are 1 1/4 shaft.
There was a tiny amount,about the same for both.None would be better but neither have any appreciable vibration.They max out at 10k rpm.

[Brian Holcombe]

Take the belt off and rotate the motor and spindle by hand, listen closely and feel carefully for any grittiness in the rotation.

The belt may contribute or cause the vibration if it’s older and brittle. I generally just immediately replace the old belts with the inner cogged style that run smoother. The German brand is opti-belt iirc.

I haven’t yet regretted replacing spindle bearings or motor bearings on any of the older machines I have, I figure a bearing replacement is cheaper than fixing a damaged spindle if the bearing freezes.

SKF Explorer bearings can be had at very reasonable prices from eBay sellers.

[Michael Schuch]

SKF Explorer bearings can be had at very reasonable prices from eBay sellers.

Do you think they are genuine SKF bearings? I always figure that bearings available for significantly lower than retail price on ebay are fakes / knock offs.

Most of the cost of replacing bearings is the time it takes to tear into the machine and actually do the replacement. Cheap but named brand ebay bearings seem like false economy to me.

P.S. I get the same bad feeling about cheap named brand Amazon bearings. I usually try to start with a trusted bearing supplier.

[Brian Holcombe]

I would imagine most of those efforts are driven toward things that require common replacement like bike wheel bearings. So there may be some overlap.

I buy most bearings from McMaster, especially small bearings. That said, I’ll shop around for larger stuff, so for big bearings if I find a seller with a small quantity of obvious NOS bearings (rather than a listing of qty 30 or something) then I personally feel comfortable buying them.

There are a lot of people who sell on there that buy out inventory and re-sell it.

I would avoid name brand stuff, brand new, coming from China.

[Richard Coers]

I would imagine most of those efforts are driven toward things that require common replacement like bike wheel bearings. So there may be some overlap.

I buy most bearings from McMaster, especially small bearings. That said, I’ll shop around for larger stuff, so for big bearings if I find a seller with a small quantity of obvious NOS bearings (rather than a listing of qty 30 or something) then I personally feel comfortable buying them.

There are a lot of people who sell on there that buy out inventory and re-sell it.

I would avoid name brand stuff, brand new, coming from China.

This may surprise you then. Gothenburg, 17 June 2020: SKF is making further investments in strengthening its manufacturing footprint in China for ball bearings. The investment is in-line with the Group's region-for-region manufacturing strategy. The Group announced a SEK 370 million investment in a new factory in Xinchang in June 2019. https://www.skf.com/us/news-and-even...-China-3696931

[Brian Holcombe]

That’s not really where I’m aiming that comment, but rather simply that one should do their research when buying on eBay.

[Warren Lake]

hows the counterfeit storey now a days Past they were notorious for running one shift of fake everything from hand bags to car parts. It was in the billions. I always dealt with Timken stuff and not sure where its made now but when I had questions about car spindles they invited me to come in and taught me stuff and gave me a fair bit of printed info. When I ordered bearings for the SCM slider from a local supplier I asked for Timken they said I was the only one who specified I wanted Timken and thought I was odd.

[andrew whicker]

How much of a pain is it to replace the spindle bearings?

I thought I would do this on my griggio but once I saw it in person I was intimidated.. I'm not usually too shy about taking a machine apart.

Looks heavy and awkward. I'm assuming I'll have to take the top off and lift the spindle out.

[Brian Holcombe]

When taking any machine apart, no matter how simple it may seem, take a lot of photos as it comes apart. This helps when memory fails.

I replaced the spindle bearings in the Graule radial arm saw and there was a couple days between disassembly and reassembly, thankfully I had photos to show where a specific shim went.

Also, if you can source all of the parts before hand, it helps a lot. If you have bearings at the ready, then everything will be a bit more fresh in your mind.

Likely you'll need a pretty good sized bearing splitter, and various pullers.

[Richard Coers]

"I would avoid name brand stuff, brand new, coming from China."
This is what you said, and I am saying genuine SKF comes from China. I don't understand how my statement is not appropriate. It may be nearly impossible to buy bearings not made in China very soon, if not at all now.